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Momma_Bear,you're right! In order for AP courses to remain what they are supposed to be (college level courses that give you college credit upon graduation assuming you get a 4-5 on the AP test), students should be required to take Honors courses as pre-requisites to AP courses. If you don't pass Honors, you don't go on to AP. This is how it is done in most private and/or Catholic high schools. In addition, AP courses are usually offered to Juniors and Seniors only with a limitation of 3 courses at a time. If the student feels he/she can take on more, then it needs to be pre-approved by the parents and the counseling office/teachers. Schools have many, many programs to aid the struggling student and beyond, so there needs to be equality for the student that needs more of an academic challenge-AP courses.
I'm sorry but schools don't usually help struggling students, except advise them todrop the course, and that's a fact.
I'm sorry but schools don't usually help struggling students, except advise them todrop the course, and that's a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buenop
Momma_Bear,you're right! In order for AP courses to remain what they are supposed to be (college level courses that give you college credit upon graduation assuming you get a 4-5 on the AP test), students should be required to take Honors courses as pre-requisites to AP courses. If you don't pass Honors, you don't go on to AP. This is how it is done in most private and/or Catholic high schools. In addition, AP courses are usually offered to Juniors and Seniors only with a limitation of 3 courses at a time. If the student feels he/she can take on more, then it needs to be pre-approved by the parents and the counseling office/teachers. Schools have many, many programs to aid the struggling student and beyond, so there needs to be equality for the student that needs more of an academic challenge-AP courses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
It's the kids that are struggling that cause the huge workload of AP classes. In places where kids are carefully selected for AP classes you do not see the kind of workloads in AP classes that you see in schools where anyone can take AP classes.
My son's school is doing recommendations for next school year right now. My son was recommended for AP Chemistry, and American History but not recommended for AP English. He got an A- in 10th grade honors English last semester and has an A this quarter. There is only one section of AP English and only the very best students are in that class. That class comes with a heavy reading load but there is not a busload of busy work because the kids in the class are kids who can "get it" without the huge workload.
I'm sorry but schools don't usually help struggling students, except advise them todrop the course, and that's a fact.
I'm sorry but schools don't usually help struggling students, except advise them todrop the course, and that's a fact.
College is about learning how to struggle to help yourself. If AP is supposed to give high school students a college-level course, why should it be any different?
I'm sorry but schools don't usually help struggling students, except advise them todrop the course, and that's a fact.
A few years ago my system started to really push AP classes. After school tutoring sessions, Saturday tutoring, call in for help, etc. were all programs instituted to help students. All that tutoring was stopped after a year. At my school, across ten AP classes, we only had 15 students participate in the tutoring options over the entire school year. That was the total number combined. Most of the tutors, the classroom teacher for the course, saw no one the entire year.
Momma_Bear,you're right! In order for AP courses to remain what they are supposed to be (college level courses that give you college credit upon graduation assuming you get a 4-5 on the AP test), students should be required to take Honors courses as pre-requisites to AP courses. If you don't pass Honors, you don't go on to AP. This is how it is done in most private and/or Catholic high schools. In addition, AP courses are usually offered to Juniors and Seniors only with a limitation of 3 courses at a time. If the student feels he/she can take on more, then it needs to be pre-approved by the parents and the counseling office/teachers. Schools have many, many programs to aid the struggling student and beyond, so there needs to be equality for the student that needs more of an academic challenge-AP courses.
Our district offers honors classes (which you only need to have a pulse to get into) and AP classes (which require a pulse and, at this writing, the ability to count to ten without using your fingers-- though three tries are permitted). Needless to say, we have a high fail rate on the AP tests. The brightest kids have mostly given up on AP and are either taking dual enrollment with the junior college (offered to juniors and seniors) or are in IB.
I'm sorry but schools don't usually help struggling students, except advise them todrop the course, and that's a fact.
If your student is really struggling in an AP class, they absolutely should drop it. AP is not intended to be the place to develop study skills. That should have happened before Johnny got there.
My former high school did (and still does) offer both AP and IB. I believe that the AP classes were open to most students (at least those who had met the prerequisites), while some of the IB classes were limited to those who were formally enrolled in the IB program. One did not have to be an IB Diploma candidate to enter the program, though, so many students took a mix of AP/IB/regular classes. As to number of classes, I think it heavily varies; I was a diploma candidate, so nearly all of my courses in my junior and senior year were either AP or IB, or in some cases, both. (I realize that the ways in which these classes are taught varies by school and teacher, but I definitely thought IB superior -- AP seemed more teach to the test and content cramming, while IB was more in-depth and less test-oriented, and was more accurately "college level".) The school currently offers 15 IB subjects, most of them with both the SL and HL offered. I'm not sure how many AP classes are offered; they seem to be mostly taken by sophomores and juniors. Some overlap with the IB classes, while others don't (or are offered as part of the sequence that leads into IB; you take an AP History course in 10th grade, for example, followed by two additional IB History classes in 11th and 12th grade). I don't think there should be a limitation on number of AP or IB courses taken, but it does make sense to provide entrance requirements where necessary, and to provide an exit strategy if a student can't handle the material.
Last edited by uptown_urbanist; 04-01-2011 at 08:19 AM..
Momma_Bear,you're right! In order for AP courses to remain what they are supposed to be (college level courses that give you college credit upon graduation assuming you get a 4-5 on the AP test), students should be required to take Honors courses as pre-requisites to AP courses. If you don't pass Honors, you don't go on to AP. This is how it is done in most private and/or Catholic high schools. In addition, AP courses are usually offered to Juniors and Seniors only with a limitation of 3 courses at a time. If the student feels he/she can take on more, then it needs to be pre-approved by the parents and the counseling office/teachers. Schools have many, many programs to aid the struggling student and beyond, so there needs to be equality for the student that needs more of an academic challenge-AP courses.
I don't know why that should be a requirement to enroll in an AP class. Maybe a kid didn't take the honors class b/c s/he didn't think s/he could handle the workload, then developed a love of the subject. Why should s/he not be allowed to try AP?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge
College is about learning how to struggle to help yourself. If AP is supposed to give high school students a college-level course, why should it be any different?
In college the teachers have office hours, tutor sessions, etc. Why should high school be any different?
Good point about office hours, etc., at the college level. I think that in an ideal situation the teachers are still there providing all the backup assistance necessary for the hard-working but struggling student. They shouldn't be expected to spoon-feed the students what they need or to assign excessive loads of homework to the class to make sure everyone understands whatever is being covered, which is perhaps what lhpartridge meant; in an optional class like AP or IB there should be the expectation that if a student needs help, then he or she can be responsible for obtaining that assistance or putting in the extra work if needed. Teachers and schools can do their part to make sure that all students know where to go if they have questions or concerns, and student can do as college students do, and take advantage (or not) of that assistance.
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I'm sorry but schools don't usually help struggling students, except advise them todrop the course, and that's a fact.
