NCLB isn't "going to improve public education" -Diane Ravitch, former supporter (colleges, private schools)

[cebdark]

I'm surprised that anyone is willing to admit it.

[Rhett_Butler]

Originally Posted by StarlaJane

I think that everyone on this thread should agree to refer to it as "ECLB." Perhaps if enough people start calling it that, then the yahoos passing such inept and counter-productive legislation might be embarrassed enough to change it. It is certainly worth a shot, as 2-3 years of data hasn't moved them to make any kind of change.

Well, like I've stated in the past. Around these parts it's affectionately known as "No Child Gets Ahead", so I'd vote for NCGA...

[lhpartridge]

I've always called it "No Child Allowed Ahead".

I believe that NCLB was a deliberate attempt to keep public schools so focused on the answers to small questions that it leaves the field wide open for the children of the power brokers. No doubt that their children do not attend schools whose entire reason for being is to reach AYP on all these indicators.

Their children are either in districts where nearly all children routinely pass and thus are not in test prep classes, or they are in private schools where the tests are non-existent. The only tests that really matter for them are their SATs once they are ready for college.

The coup de grace of NCLB is the financial penalty for failure to meet standards. Let's kick them while they're down, why don't we?

[Charles Wallace]

It's not surprising to me. Not any of it.

Frankly, the University of Chicago was on the right track when it essentially eliminated its own college of education as a major because it was academically worthless.

I truly believe that colleges of education do absolutely nothing of value. Should a teacher wish to teach s/he should major in a core discipline (history, English, math, or science) and attend apprenticeships with a trained and seasoned teacher in a variety of settings (inner-city, suburban country-club). Specific workshops on composing lesson plans and classroom management could be added.

[Sunnydee]

NCLB is called No Child Goes Untested where I work.

[StarlaJane]

I like 'Nother Crappy Legislative Blunder. I think it really captures the complete and total ignorance of the NCLB legislation. And much like the legislation, it has nothing to do with children.

[Minethatbird]

I never had too much of a problem with NCLB, though I am not a teacher, just a parent. I believe the big crime of NCLB was to actually inform people of just how bad our public schools are actually performing.

Don't know much about Race to the Top, so can't comment much.

My belief is the problems of public education these days go far beyond government programs and their flaws.

[StarlaJane]

Originally Posted by Minethatbird

I never had too much of a problem with NCLB, though I am not a teacher, just a parent. I believe the big crime of NCLB was to actually inform people of just how bad our public schools are actually performing.

Don't know much about Race to the Top, so can't comment much.

My belief is the problems of public education these days go far beyond government programs and their flaws.

I don't think that anyone would disagree with you on that. However, those who criticize ECLB are not blaming it for all of the problems in public schools but are stating that it has made the situation much worse rather than much better. Moreover, I don't think that ECLB informed anyone; most people were already very well aware of how poorly the public schools in this country were performing. In fact, that was exactly why the legislation was passed--as a response to complaints and concerns from citizens, especially educators and parents. And now that the legislation has proven counter-productive, that's what you're hearing again--complaints and concerns, which will hopefully result in new legislation that might actually help rather than hinder public school performance.

[elamigo]

Originally Posted by jps-teacher

Former 'No Child Left Behind' Advocate Turns Critic : NPR

"I've looked at the evidence and I've concluded they're wrong. They've put us on the wrong track. I feel passionately about the improvement of public education and I don't think any of this is going to improve public education."

Too little, too late? Perhaps.

Better late than never? Yes, I suppose so.

Ravitch is and was one of the leading scholars of education history. Her voice was a strong and clear one in support of these unbenighted policies - it is good to see reason return to her.

Well, I will play the Devil's Advocte on this one.

NCLB does have its flaws. However, why was implelented? Was it because our educational system was so successful that the people across the nation did not want any changes? Definitely not in my book. If you read back part of the problem was that people demanded changes. President Bush took action because the people wanted action. Sure, he may have provided some flawed system but he did something. I have read some accounts of some principles that actually felt their districts needed the force of the government to get things done and produced some results.
Also, many teachers ARE marginal achievers and were shortchanging the students thus this program forced them to do something.
Also, it is better than nothing to test students to see what is level of education they achieved. Testing is a method to gauge people in any area whether at school or work.

So it is better than nothing that we had before. If initiative and enovation was there before NCLB then people would not be complaining about the education system before NCLB.

You have a great day.
El Amigo

[Minethatbird]

Originally Posted by StarlaJane

I don't think that anyone would disagree with you on that. However, those who criticize ECLB are not blaming it for all of the problems in public schools but are stating that it has made the situation much worse rather than much better. Moreover, I don't think that ECLB informed anyone; most people were already very well aware of how poorly the public schools in this country were performing. In fact, that was exactly why the legislation was passed--as a response to complaints and concerns from citizens, especially educators and parents. And now that the legislation has proven counter-productive, that's what you're hearing again--complaints and concerns, which will hopefully result in new legislation that might actually help rather than hinder public school performance.

I can't say I see how a program telling schools to test their students once a year to see if students are learning is going to worsen an already bad situation. I must disagree with your assessment of most people being aware of poor public school performance; in my experience many people are of the belief that yes the public school system is horrid, but my kid's school is great. If it is failing NCLB standards there is always some rationalization for why it is failing.