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Old 04-20-2010, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,428,369 times
Reputation: 35920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
I am wondering the same thing. Many schools in VA have 200 contract days. I have 194.

In retirement, our district pays $100 of a retiree's monthly healtcare premium. Not such a great perk.
Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch! Many retirees do not get that much!
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Old 04-20-2010, 09:21 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
874 posts, read 2,887,791 times
Reputation: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
You give extra help during school hours by adapting assignments, having flexible groups, utilizing instructional assistants, etc. School policy is that homework should be able to be completed independently. So there shouldn't be a need to help with homewok. Also, as we get closer to the end of year testing, we have some after school groups that meet for an hour twice a week for test taking skills, but teachers get paid per hour for that.
Are instructional assistants the same as paras (paraeducators) or are they special ed or something different? Are these staff members in the general ed classroom at all times, for just part of the day, only if a specific student has an IEP for them (inclusion) ... ? I am asking because we don't have people that fill any of these roles (with the exception of SPED students with inclusion who might have a para with them in the general ed classroom for 45 or 90 minutes per day) in our general ed classrooms in my district, so I am curious what role these instructional assistants play elsewhere.
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:07 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
874 posts, read 2,887,791 times
Reputation: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Do not hide behind your computer making statements you would not have the courage to say to my face. You are the one with a job dominated by women.
I have a mans job.
I did not know there was such a thing as a "mans [sic] job" in this day and age. What is that job again? Male underwear model... Ultimate Fighter.... hmm - having a hard time thinking of what constitutes a man's job. However, I would hope there is not an intimation that teaching belongs solely to the purview of women because that would be an inaccuracy.

Also, you referred to TIMSS scores a few times and linked to a web page from a site whose authors (note that the site is copyright of The Liberty Church) have a specific worldview regarding school choice. Using a page like that as your data source is not any better than using Wikipedia as a data source (elementary students learn that Wikipedia, sites that anyone can slap up on the Web, and the like are all not valid sources of scholarly information). The TIMSS information provided on that site is from 1999; 2 more TIMSS reports have been completed since that time. Have you looked at the most current TIMSS reports or just the more-than-decade old one? I'm not saying if the results are any better or worse on the more recent reports; rather, I'm curious if you reviewed them at all.

You are definitely correct that many white collar careers are not as physically difficult as blue collar jobs. You are also correct that many teachers make less money than some people employeed in a more manual labor-intense position. Many blue collar workers I know who do make more than teachers do so because they get paid time and a half (at least) for working overtime, which teachers and many other salary-scale workers do not. This may have some bearing on the wage/salary discrepancies, but there are certainly many jobs out there that pay more than most teachers make. I know there are jobs that are harder out there than the career I have chosen (and teaching is a choice, of course). I know there are jobs that are far easier. I'm sure any logically thinking individual knows this as well. Then again, what is hard for one person is easy for another, so as with all things this is very objective (a.k.a. YMMV). For example, tightrope walker? This would be MUCH harder for me than my current job because even though I am not at all afraid of heights, I do not have the best sense of balance.

Last edited by buffy888; 04-20-2010 at 10:26 PM..
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,390,846 times
Reputation: 53067
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccr4tigers View Post
It has become rather apparent from your posts that somewhere, some teacher or state employee hacked you off and now you are bitter. Guess what? There are terrible teachers out there. Guess what? There are terrible people in all positions. I am not martyr. I like my job. That is why I do it. I love those kids. That is why I stay late and lead clubs and go to basketball games.

If you love your job, or love your pay, good for you. If you don't, then I am sorry. I hope you find something you like more. If you don't, then apologize that life dealt you a tough hand. However, I don't see how attacking a profession that is supposed to help educate our future generations will in any way make your situation better. If you really believe that teaching is so silly, so beneath you, perhaps you should run for some public office or lobby for reforms. However, in the meantime I am going to keep doing my job, that I love. A job that is awesome and interesting and exciting. A job, that frankly is noble and is more than a job. You can laugh at me for that, or even look down on me. I really don't care.
Well-said!
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Maryland
1,534 posts, read 4,253,966 times
Reputation: 2326
This has been an interesting thread to peruse. My only observation/comment is this:

Any society that does not esteem and compensate the teachers of its children at the highest levels is not very smart.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:32 AM
 
Location: Marion, IA
2,793 posts, read 6,111,702 times
Reputation: 1613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim21784 View Post
This has been an interesting thread to peruse. My only observation/comment is this:

Any society that does not esteem and compensate the teachers of its children at the highest levels is not very smart.
100 years ago we spent a fraction/pupil what we do now, but kids were 100 times better educated. Education takes 4 walls, books and teachers who are in it for the kids; not the money.
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:49 AM
 
238 posts, read 667,551 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by spotrod View Post
Hi Jim,

Sense you think its so great; The pay, benefits, time off. You can always apply to be a teacher. Instead of working 10 Hr shifts all payed come on over to our side and work for 10+ however only payed for 7.5. Come on Over its great! However please post after a year of being a teacher and tell us you feel the same.
* paid!
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:27 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,269,447 times
Reputation: 5194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccr4tigers View Post
I would agree with you that teachers do not have knowledge of what "most of us do". However, you are not "most of us" either. You have your job. Perhaps you have had many jobs. That is your perspective. Just like I certainly don't know what it is like to be a surgeon staring into someone's open chest cavity. And you probably don't know what it is like to work in a 3rd world country in Africa, hand mixing concrete everyday to build a "hospital", and then watch half of your neighbors die of AIDS. Also, you did not watch all that teachers do for 12 years, which is the point that everyone has been trying to make to you on this forum. Teaching requires planning. Lots and lots of planning. Those things happen outside of the classroom. And, you are right that there are teachers who don't do more than they are contracted to do. Those teachers are the ones that are craptastic at their jobs. If you want to be a good teacher, you work extra hours.

However, this all so completely beside the point. Just because I am not currently hand mixing concrete anymore, does not invalidate what I do now. All this back and forth about whose job is easier or harder is ridiculous. I have not worked your job. I therefore don't have a single opinion about your pay, how hard you work, your life, etc. You have not been a teacher. You do not know what you are talking about. Sorry. You don't.

It has become rather apparent from your posts that somewhere, some teacher or state employee hacked you off and now you are bitter. Guess what? There are terrible teachers out there. Guess what? There are terrible people in all positions. I am not martyr. I like my job. That is why I do it. I love those kids. That is why I stay late and lead clubs and go to basketball games.

If you love your job, or love your pay, good for you. If you don't, then I am sorry. I hope you find something you like more. If you don't, then apologize that life dealt you a tough hand. However, I don't see how attacking a profession that is supposed to help educate our future generations will in any way make your situation better. If you really believe that teaching is so silly, so beneath you, perhaps you should run for some public office or lobby for reforms. However, in the meantime I am going to keep doing my job, that I love. A job that is awesome and interesting and exciting. A job, that frankly is noble and is more than a job. You can laugh at me for that, or even look down on me. I really don't care.

And finally, you did define "hard" rather loosely. I agree that there are many, many jobs that from a physical perspective make my job look like a cakewalk. However, pretty much any office job would be in that same boat. Still, I wonder how often you go home carrying a burden for some kid. Perhaps it is a kid who, despite the fact that her father molests her, is being returned to his custody because he has "changed". That is just one example. Certainly I have worked jobs that are much "harder" by your definition, but I have never worked in a field that has effected my stress level or emotions like this one. But, maybe that is beneath you as well.
The issue goes deeper than whose job is harder. My frustration with the educational system is in its failure in relation to our country. Our country is going to hell in a hand basket and the educational system has much to do with that. I am not blaming it all on teachers, the curriculum is terrible, the bureaucracy is criminal, and yes the parents should be outraged, and either are too stupid or just don't care. There is plenty of room to point fingers but until everyone involved takes responsibility for their part in the problem it will not begin to be solved. Our country was constructed to have power in the hands of the people, but without the proper education the people can be deceived and misled. That is the situation today. Our educational system takes the mile wide and inch deep approach to teaching subjects that leaves the recipients with a confused understanding of everything. We have recently seen an entire population sold a ridiculous notion by the banking industry that they could borrow their way to prosperity. As a result they stood by complacently while big business closed factories and shipped jobs overseas in order to increase profits. The result has been the greatest economic setback since the great depression, with no hope of those exported jobs returning. It is ironic that this situation is now coming back around to bite the educational system in the form of budget cuts and teacher layoffs. What most teachers do not understand is that this situation will get much worse going forward. Take a long hard look at your local, state, and federal budget deficits and explain how they are going to balance those budgets with the gigantic unfunded pensions and other obligations in light of massive unemployment and decimated manufacturing base. It is simply not going to happen, at least not until we begin to rebuild the foundations which made our country strong and prosperous to begin with. The first pillar in that foundation is education.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:48 AM
 
8,652 posts, read 17,207,217 times
Reputation: 4622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
I don't get a lunch break. I have to eat with my students.
If you are not teaching at the same time it's still a lunch break....
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:52 AM
 
8,652 posts, read 17,207,217 times
Reputation: 4622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim21784 View Post
This has been an interesting thread to peruse. My only observation/comment is this:

Any society that does not esteem and compensate the teachers of its children at the highest levels is not very smart.
And those that do suck the tax payer dry....

Schools need to learn how to manage money just like businesses do....

For some reason if you are tax funded you think the is no bottom to the barrel...

Ever school district around me is going broke this year. They are all millions of dollars short... It's time to do some cutting!
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