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Old 01-29-2011, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,576,256 times
Reputation: 53073

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sherrenee View Post

My husband not only has to work mentally and he also has to work physically. Lets see that from a teacher!!!!

Teachers have it too good...thank goodness my state is looking into changing that.
My dad was a teacher who did roofing his summers "off" so he could support his family. Eventually, he quit teaching and became a full-time carpenter and building contractor who owned his own small business, because his teaching wages kept our family at the food stamp eligiblity level. Yup, totally "had it good."
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:30 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,733,278 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherrenee View Post
I have to disagree....I am going to use my SIL for the example...she makes 60k a year and has only been teaching for aprox. 7 years, she works 190 days a year, has summers off, two weeks at Christmas, a week and Thanksgiving, a week at Spring break, holidays and weekends. She has insurance that is paid by tax dollars for herself and her husband, and a generous retirement.

My husband who is an Electrician (does mainly commercial and industrial) who also went to school for 4 years (same as his sister) works 8-14 hr days (usually avg 60 hrs a week), weekends, nights, travels for work, works in the snow, rain, heat, gets one week off for vacation, has health insurance that we pay for (he is diabetic) retirement that we pay for, tools that we pay for and he does not make 60k.

My husband not only has to work mentally and he also has to work physically. Lets see that from a teacher!!!!

Teachers have it too good...thank goodness my state is looking into changing that.
LOL No wonder Arkansas is below the national average for NAEP for every year right through 2009.

State Profiles Home Page

Good luck improving that by lowering the quality of teachers. Oh and not for nothing, teachers require college degrees, electricians do not.
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Old 01-29-2011, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Arkansas
1,230 posts, read 3,176,369 times
Reputation: 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
LOL No wonder Arkansas is below the national average for NAEP for every year right through 2009.

State Profiles Home Page

Good luck improving that by lowering the quality of teachers. Oh and not for nothing, teachers require college degrees, electricians do not.

Arkansas is not looking into lowering the quality of education, they are looking into the teachers working more days. If you ask me that would increase the quality due to more days in class.

Electricians in Arkansas are required to go to school for 4 years plus 8000 the job training hours...they must then pass a test, and take continuing education in order to maintain their license...sounds pretty equivalent to a college degree. http://www.state.ar.us/labor//faqs/faqs_p2.html (broken link)

Also just because its not a "college degree" does not make it any less valuable. I'm pretty sure you want someone who is doing electrical work on your house/buisness/equipment to know what they are doing, considering it could result in the loss of that home/buisness/equipment, result in injury or possibly death.

Last edited by sherrenee; 01-29-2011 at 07:08 PM..
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Old 01-29-2011, 10:15 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,733,278 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherrenee View Post
Arkansas is not looking into lowering the quality of education, they are looking into the teachers working more days. If you ask me that would increase the quality due to more days in class.

Electricians in Arkansas are required to go to school for 4 years plus 8000 the job training hours...they must then pass a test, and take continuing education in order to maintain their license...sounds pretty equivalent to a college degree. Arkansas Department of Labor (http://www.state.ar.us/labor//faqs/faqs_p2.html - broken link)

Also just because its not a "college degree" does not make it any less valuable. I'm pretty sure you want someone who is doing electrical work on your house/buisness/equipment to know what they are doing, considering it could result in the loss of that home/buisness/equipment, result in injury or possibly death.
Your own source states electricians need have NO formal training if they have enough on the job experience.

Second, jobs that REQUIRE college degrees (such as teaching) typically pay more to compensate the years lost in wages and the outlay of tuition.

Finally, I never said electricians are not valuable but the FACT that those with college degrees make more than those without is proof that those jobs are more valuable at least in the monetary sense.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Arkansas
1,230 posts, read 3,176,369 times
Reputation: 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Your own source states electricians need have NO formal training if they have enough on the job experience.

Second, jobs that REQUIRE college degrees (such as teaching) typically pay more to compensate the years lost in wages and the outlay of tuition.

Finally, I never said electricians are not valuable but the FACT that those with college degrees make more than those without is proof that those jobs are more valuable at least in the monetary sense.

I have no idea what you are reading it specifically states that....
Quote:
An applicant for a journeyman electrician license shall have: (a) four (4) years (8,000 hours) electrical work experience approved by the board: and (b) a four year combination of training and experience as the board may approve, such as formal apprenticeship programs approved by the board, on-the-job training specifically approved by the board, public or private electrical training programs, such as those conducted by the armed forces, colleges or vocational-technical schools, specifically approved by the board, or a combination of training and electrical experience that is determined by the board to be equivalent to that as specified in paragraph 6.2(a) above.



It also states....
Quote:
Released for Test” form from their training program if applicable and approved by the Department of Workforce Education. The applicant may take the examination after completion of four years training and submission of the approved Released for Test form. (d) Maintenance experience in electrical work may be considered provided: (1) the applicant has completed a BAT-approved construction sponsored apprenticeship program: and (2) electrical work must be: (A) performed under the direct supervision of an engineer, licensed master electrician, or licensed journeyman electrician: and (B) verified and documented in detail; and (3) experience must either: (A) four (4) years (8,000 hours) of verified electrical construction experience; or (B) six (6) years (10,000 hours) of electrical maintenance experience with two (2) of those years consisting of electrical construction experience.
So where exactly does this state that they do not have to have formal training??? In past yes that was true but the law changed somewhere around 1998.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 01-30-2011 at 06:47 PM.. Reason: fixed quote html
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:10 PM
 
796 posts, read 1,843,602 times
Reputation: 378
If I divide what I make as a teacher by the hours I actually put in on a weekly basis, I am barely making minimum wage. Add to that the money that comes out of my pocket for supplies that my school doesn't provide, and I am in the red. If you ask me, all that time off is well-deserved, because the school system sure as hell doesn't pay a whole heck of a lot!
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Old 01-30-2011, 02:34 PM
 
166 posts, read 229,865 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherrenee View Post
If you ask me that would increase the quality due to more days in class.
There is not much of a correlation between educational outcomes and the number of days in school.

If you want to improve 'quality', the number of days is one of the last things that need addressing.

US teachers already spend more time in class than most other countries in the OECD.
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:50 PM
 
13,254 posts, read 33,526,609 times
Reputation: 8103
Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiteacher View Post
***Are you sick of high paid teachers?
Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage. That's right. Let's give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and plan -- that equals 6 1/2 hours). Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.

Now how many students do they teach in a day...maybe 30? So that's $19.50 x 30 =
$585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I
am not going to pay them for any vacations. LET'S SEE.... That's $585 X 180=
$105,300 per year. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's
degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be
fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children
X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

Wait a minute -- there's something wrong here!
There sure is!
The average teacher's salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student--a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!) WHAT A DEAL!!!!

*** this was from a e-mail from a teacher - I didn't know if she wanted her name published so I left it out ***
Please note that there is no reference to electricians in this post and any further reference to them will be considered a thread hi jack which is against the TOS for this site: https://www.city-data.com/forumtos.html

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Old 02-03-2011, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,540,621 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by giz2000 View Post
If I divide what I make as a teacher by the hours I actually put in on a weekly basis, I am barely making minimum wage. Add to that the money that comes out of my pocket for supplies that my school doesn't provide, and I am in the red. If you ask me, all that time off is well-deserved, because the school system sure as hell doesn't pay a whole heck of a lot!
IMO, one of the issues is that people do not realize the hours teachers put in. I came out of industry and I can tell you, first hand, that I put in more hours as a teacher than I ever drempt of as an engineer for half the pay. I haven't calculated my hourly rate because I'd, probably, cry. I was at over $47/hr when I left industry and that was before my yearly bonus which could be as high as $17K.

I can't figure out why I'm worth so much less educating your children than I am when designing your cars (generic your here). You'd think the kids would matter more than the cars. That says a lot about our priorities which explains a lot about the state of education in this country.

I spend over $500 per year out of pocket. This year it will be more like $800 becuase I broke down and bought a laser jet printer so I can print hundreds of copies at a time from home. I just spent $70 two days ago on supplies for a lab. I'll spend another $200 before the year is out. I wish the government would give us a full write off for what we really spend instead of capping it at $250. I can spend $250 on one balance for the lab and it would be a crappy one.

My kids have come right out and asked me to go back into engineering. Even they know there's more prestige in being an engineer than a teacher and they miss the income. While I love teaching, I may make the jump back when my oldest goes to college. I may have to to pay her tuition. Fortunately, they're predicting a shortage of chemical engineers so it shouldn't be hard. I'm hoping to make be able to cover her tuition with summer jobs but, if I can't, I'll just go back into industry.

I've been told I'm one of the strongest teachers the principal has ever seen. I know my content very well and can explain it six different ways if necessary. Sadly, that's not worth half as much as designing plastic trim pieces for your car. Some times I miss those days. Being able to go home at the end of the day and being done with work until I went back in the next day. Now I just bring it home with me. I'm at the school for 8-9 hours a day and come home and do 2-3 more hours of work. Weekends aren't family time anymore, they're time to catch up. I really don't know how people who have young kids do this job. I go nonstop from September to June...and people whine I'm paid too much???? Not when you look at the education required for this job and the hours put in doing it.
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Old 02-06-2011, 05:57 PM
 
608 posts, read 1,346,660 times
Reputation: 469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post

I can't figure out why I'm worth so much less educating your children than I am when designing your cars (generic your here). You'd think the kids would matter more than the cars. That says a lot about our priorities which explains a lot about the state of education in this country.
.
This simple and truthful answer is because we don't care about our kids. We don't love them, respect them, expect much out of them, or care about them. They know it, you know it and I know it. Its all a sham.

As Stanley Kubrick once said about making his movies, and making some of the best movies ever made.

"You either care or you don't"

and in this country....we don't.
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