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Old 04-16-2010, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,778 posts, read 15,201,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Where are you located that the teachers work only 160 days per year? Honestly, I've never heard of a school year that short.

And no we don't get full time pay and generous retirement. I make 1/3 of what I did when I was an engineer and have no retirement now. Yes, some teachers are well paid with good retirement plans but not all of us enjoy those perks.
I am wondering the same thing. Many schools in VA have 200 contract days. I have 194.

In retirement, our district pays $100 of a retiree's monthly healtcare premium. Not such a great perk.
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,344,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
I am wondering the same thing. Many schools in VA have 200 contract days. I have 194.

In retirement, our district pays $100 of a retiree's monthly healtcare premium. Not such a great perk.
I'm in Michigan where it's feast or famine. Either you're in a district and have great pay and benefits with a state pension or you're in a charter or private school where you make peanuts and have lousy benefits and no retirement. I'm surprised charter schools can keep teachers. You have to have a spouse who has good insurance to work in one from what I can see. The only thing my school offers is a 401K but they don't match contributions. The medical they offer is laughable, expensive and I can't cover my spouse. Unfortunately, my dh's insurance isn't much better. So, we pay over $1000 a month for insurance on top of me making next to nothing. I wish I had half of what people think I have.

I don't know how many contract days my children's teachers have but my kids have 180 school days so I'm guessing around the 200 I am contracted for.
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Old 04-17-2010, 12:23 AM
 
1,106 posts, read 3,514,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
In my area teachers only work 160 days, (2+ mos. off in summer, and 2 weeks off both Christmas and spring break) that is 100 days less per year and 2 hrs less per day that a 40hr per wk employee. I do not know anyone anymore who is a 40hr a week employee. Personally I am now working 55 hrs a week, six days. Stop whining, you are working part time, and you get paid full time + benefits and very generous retirement. You are lucky you are not being paid by your results considering the test scores and knowledge base of the students in this country.
I understand that people can exagerate when they post sometimes but at least they could just believe something enough to lie about it on a forum and not think that I would look it up b/c I had nothing else better to do at 1:20 in the morning on a Friday night while I am taking a break from grading todays Chapter 7 test (I normally don't do this so don't worry).

Jimhcom, If you really believe I suggest you study your district calendar and look at the options. Here it is, I looked it up for you.
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Old 04-17-2010, 06:49 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,242,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike052082 View Post
I understand that people can exagerate when they post sometimes but at least they could just believe something enough to lie about it on a forum and not think that I would look it up b/c I had nothing else better to do at 1:20 in the morning on a Friday night while I am taking a break from grading todays Chapter 7 test (I normally don't do this so don't worry).

Jimhcom, If you really believe I suggest you study your district calendar and look at the options. Here it is, I looked it up for you.
Wow I stand corrected 185 days. How do you do it? It must be a living hell! Look, I am not looking to crucify teachers, but in the overall scheme of things you guys have it pretty good, and the rest of us get a little weary of hearing teachers complain. Most of the parents you show such distain for, are working jobs that make yours seem like a cake walk. The majority of this country is still blue collar, and spend their lives sacrificing their health and their bodies for a pay check. If they are lucky enough to own their own home, over the course of their life on average they will pay over $100,000 hard earned dollars in property taxes which will mostly go to education. Many will be working a job where you are so physically exhausted at the end of the day all you can do is eat dinner, go to sleep, and get up and do it again the next day until your body eventually wears out. Try working a job where the working conditions may require you to do physical labor in 100 degree heat, or climb a pole in a freezing storm to restore someone’s power at 2:00AM. Try looking forward to a future which includes being fired as soon as your body will no longer take the abuse, and without a Union or tenure to protect you. Try looking forward to debilitating physical conditions in your 40s and 50s due to worn out joints and vertebrae. Then, send your children to school in hopes they can escape the type of life you live, and they end up after 12 years not even proficient in reading, writing, english, math, and history. Then listen to teachers who have had 12 years to teach them, tell you how it is your fault because your child is deficient, or you did not do enough, while at the same time enjoying time off, job security, and benefits that only government employees can imagine. By the way, it is 4:00 AM Saturday, I am starting a 10hr shift, and yes I do this all the time.
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,344,160 times
Reputation: 14686
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Wow I stand corrected 185 days. How do you do it? It must be a living hell! Look, I am not looking to crucify teachers, but in the overall scheme of things you guys have it pretty good, and the rest of us get a little weary of hearing teachers complain. Most of the parents you show such distain for, are working jobs that make yours seem like a cake walk. The majority of this country is still blue collar, and spend their lives sacrificing their health and their bodies for a pay check. If they are lucky enough to own their own home, over the course of their life on average they will pay over $100,000 hard earned dollars in property taxes which will mostly go to education. Many will be working a job where you are so physically exhausted at the end of the day all you can do is eat dinner, go to sleep, and get up and do it again the next day until your body eventually wears out. Try working a job where the working conditions may require you to do physical labor in 100 degree heat, or climb a pole in a freezing storm to restore someone’s power at 2:00AM. Try looking forward to a future which includes being fired as soon as your body will no longer take the abuse, and without a Union or tenure to protect you. Try looking forward to debilitating physical conditions in your 40s and 50s due to worn out joints and vertebrae. Then, send your children to school in hopes they can escape the type of life you live, and they end up after 12 years not even proficient in reading, writing, english, math, and history. Then listen to teachers who have had 12 years to teach them, tell you how it is your fault because your child is deficient, or you did not do enough, while at the same time enjoying time off, job security, and benefits that only government employees can imagine. By the way, it is 4:00 AM Saturday, I am starting a 10hr shift, and yes I do this all the time.
Actually, the kids go 185 days (you really need to brush up on your math ). That would have the teachers closer to 200 days. The average worker in this country, who works a 40 hour work week works about 230 days. 30 days off, at my low pay, hardly compensates me for the 8 evenings I'm required to stay for parent teacher conferences, without extra pay, the 5 days I put in tearing down and prepping my room for the next year, wihtout pay, the classes I'm required to take to keep my certificate (I am the most educated person I know and I'm not allowed to quit school ), they also don't pay my tuition and it, certainly, doesn't compensate for the 30 hours a week I put in outside of the classroom.

I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE, as I'm a former engineer, that I work CONSIDERABLY more hours as a teacher than I did as an engineer for 1/3 the pay, nowhere near the benefits and no retirement plan. If they paid me for the hours I actually work at the rate I was paid as an engineering summer intern 20 years ago, I'd make more money than I do now and I'd have better beneifts. Why are you complaining about us?

Oh, and teachers pay property taxes which go mostly to education as well. Again, why are you complaining? No one is asking you to do anything they are not doing, except stay up until 1:30 on a Friday grading test papers and spend your weekends writing lesson plans.
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:12 AM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,075,198 times
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One thing about comparing teachers to industry-------how often at noon,does the administration/boss post a sign that requires you to work and stay on the job 2 hours longer.

( it was a normal occurence in my 44 years working )

How often at 11:00 on thursday does the administration/boss post a sign that stated-------" Saturday,mandatory work" ?

( it was a normal occurence in my 44 years working)


I worked at union places and the above was part of a normal procedure.
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,344,160 times
Reputation: 14686
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
One thing about comparing teachers to industry-------how often at noon,does the administration/boss post a sign that requires you to work and stay on the job 2 hours longer.

( it was a normal occurence in my 44 years working )

How often at 11:00 on thursday does the administration/boss post a sign that stated-------" Saturday,mandatory work" ?

( it was a normal occurence in my 44 years working)


I worked at union places and the above was part of a normal procedure.
My answers

How often at noon does the boss post a note saying I have to work two hours over - on occaision, however, it happens almost daily when it comes to students needing to stay to make up tests or labs or just needing tutoring. I am permitted to leave at 3:30 but I can count on one hand the times I actually have. The norm is for me to still have students in my room an hour after school is out. Then I have to clean up before I can leave. So my answer is, pretty much daily. I don't ever plan on leaving at 3:30. Most likley, I won't be able to. On the rare occaision I have to, I'm, usually, appologizing to a student or a parent because I can't stay to help the student.

I work every Saturday so no sign is needed . Saturday is my day to catch up on all the things I couldn't get to during the week. I have a question for you. How many of those mandatory Saturday's and 2 extra hours did you work for free?
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:17 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,242,173 times
Reputation: 5193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Actually, the kids go 185 days (you really need to brush up on your math ). That would have the teachers closer to 200 days. The average worker in this country, who works a 40 hour work week works about 230 days. 30 days off, at my low pay, hardly compensates me for the 8 evenings I'm required to stay for parent teacher conferences, without extra pay, the 5 days I put in tearing down and prepping my room for the next year, wihtout pay, the classes I'm required to take to keep my certificate (I am the most educated person I know and I'm not allowed to quit school ), they also don't pay my tuition and it, certainly, doesn't compensate for the 30 hours a week I put in outside of the classroom.

I can tell you FROM EXPERIENCE, as I'm a former engineer, that I work CONSIDERABLY more hours as a teacher than I did as an engineer for 1/3 the pay, nowhere near the benefits and no retirement plan. If they paid me for the hours I actually work at the rate I was paid as an engineering summer intern 20 years ago, I'd make more money than I do now and I'd have better beneifts. Why are you complaining about us?

Oh, and teachers pay property taxes which go mostly to education as well. Again, why are you complaining? No one is asking you to do anything they are not doing, except stay up until 1:30 on a Friday grading test papers and spend your weekends writing lesson plans.
Be careful about throwing stones from your glass house I am not the one who did not understand the OP's original statement. And we are all very impressed that you were once an engineer, so you do not have to repeat it anymore.. As far as your calculations on average hours worked I am not sure where you come up with this 40hr week nonsense but short of White Collar workers a 40hr week is a rarity. Most people I know who are still lucky enough to be employed, are working close to 50hrs a week 50 weeks a year, with a whole 4 paid holidays (of course if one of those holidays fall on a normal day off you loose it) and no such thing as sick days. That is the real world. If you are in sales or salaried management 60hrs a week is more likely. If you are a blue collar worker, your risk of being killed on the job is 100 times what it is for teachers. Many jobs require constant exposure to chemicals that require the work site to be posted with signs warning of exposure to asbestos, carcinogens, and chemicals that cause birth defects. Most blue collar jobs subject workers to constant hazards which can and do result in life changing injuries. I have personally been injured several times and some of my injuries will never heal. Most of my co workers and I live with constant pain due to work related injuries. I can promise you if you spent 1 day working in my world you would appreciate just how good you really have it. So if you do not like your pay, by all means go do something else, but quit whining, and trying to convince the rest of us how bad you have it..
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:35 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,590,054 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
Wow I stand corrected 185 days. How do you do it? It must be a living hell!
An industrial or research scientist (with my education and years of experience) in my area can expect to work about 222 days a year if you count, vacation time, sick days, federal holidays and weekends. That is a difference of 32 days (since I am contractually obligated to 190 days) and they make on average 30K more than I do. And I choose that so I do not complain about it but seriously do not tell me how "good" I have it.

Quote:
Look, I am not looking to crucify teachers, but in the overall scheme of things you guys have it pretty good, and the rest of us get a little weary of hearing teachers complain. Most of the parents you show such distain for, are working jobs that make yours seem like a cake walk. The majority of this country is still blue collar, and spend their lives sacrificing their health and their bodies for a pay check.
That was YOUR CHOICE, you could have gotten a degree and been a teacher but you CHOSE not to. Why blame me for your choices?

Quote:
If they are lucky enough to own their own home, over the course of their life on average they will pay over $100,000 hard earned dollars in property taxes which will mostly go to education.
Do you think teachers do not pay taxes? We have the exact same property taxes you do and we get paid significantly less than our peers in private industry.

Quote:
Many will be working a job where you are so physically exhausted at the end of the day all you can do is eat dinner, go to sleep, and get up and do it again the next day until your body eventually wears out.
You chose your job, as did I. You could have been a teacher, why didn't you? Second, teachers do not have the option of going to sleep, or just spending their evenings with their own children, since we have to grade and prep. I have NO prep period in school so ALL of my grading happens at home.

Quote:
Try working a job where the working conditions may require you to do physical labor in 100 degree heat, or climb a pole in a freezing storm to restore someone’s power at 2:00AM.
So I take it you have decided that ALL of your children should be teachers since we have it so much easier?

Quote:
Try looking forward to a future which includes being fired as soon as your body will no longer take the abuse, and without a Union or tenure to protect you. Try looking forward to debilitating physical conditions in your 40s and 50s due to worn out joints and vertebrae.
You seem to be blaming teachers for the choices you made in your career. No one forced you to be whatever you are, why didn't you become a teacher since we are sooooo overpaid and underworked?

I worked very hard on my college and post graduate work. All requirements for my job. Why should I not have the benefits of my white collar education? Just because you chose otherwise?

Quote:
Then, send your children to school in hopes they can escape the type of life you live, and they end up after 12 years not even proficient in reading, writing, english, math, and history.
Education is a partnership between students, parents and teachers. ALL of those must be in place for success, a single teacher cannot ruin a student. And I seriously doubt that your child had 50 some odd horrendous teachers throughout their school years. If your child is not proficient in ANYTHING you may want to look elsewhere than teachers.

Quote:
Then listen to teachers who have had 12 years to teach them, tell you how it is your fault because your child is deficient, or you did not do enough, while at the same time enjoying time off, job security, and benefits that only government employees can imagine. By the way, it is 4:00 AM Saturday, I am starting a 10hr shift, and yes I do this all the time.
BTW it is Saturday and I just got back from the local library where I was tutoring two of my students for free. And yes I do this all the time. Matter of fact I will be out helping a group of seniors (not even in my class anymore) with their research projects tomorrow. Yes I do this every weekend, and I do not get paid.
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:48 PM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,075,198 times
Reputation: 8265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
My answers

How often at noon does the boss post a note saying I have to work two hours over - on occaision, however, it happens almost daily when it comes to students needing to stay to make up tests or labs or just needing tutoring. I am permitted to leave at 3:30 but I can count on one hand the times I actually have. The norm is for me to still have students in my room an hour after school is out. Then I have to clean up before I can leave. So my answer is, pretty much daily. I don't ever plan on leaving at 3:30. Most likley, I won't be able to. On the rare occaision I have to, I'm, usually, appologizing to a student or a parent because I can't stay to help the student.

I work every Saturday so no sign is needed . Saturday is my day to catch up on all the things I couldn't get to during the week. I have a question for you. How many of those mandatory Saturday's and 2 extra hours did you work for free?
--I work every Saturday"

Are you required to report in and be teaching on Saturdays?--no

What bugs me is what a recently retired teacher said who took retirement as soon as eligible----" I have had enough of sarificing my family's family time for my profession"

Yet, this was the same person who constantly commented on all the times during the week in summer she went to the lake.

Who always commented on their busy family weekend schedule------weddings to attend, birthday parties, anniversaries.

Many of us who retired from the " real world" recount missing many of those things. Nearly half of my chidren's activities we were unable to attend.

Not complaining then-----it's called earning a living.

However, when teachers complain about theirt personal/ family life being sooooo affected by teaching, I got to laugh.

Maybe if those arrogant teachers asked the students in their class about the parents work schedules, they would realize they were better off than 90% of their students' parents in regards to work schedules.

They also, in many districts, would discover their wages were better than the majority of their students' parents.

But the parents aren't the ones crying--" woe is me"--like many of the teachers are.
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