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Old 04-17-2010, 04:19 PM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,113,469 times
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Some stuff in teachers contracts is pure stupidity that would not be tolerated in the " real world"

Example------a few years while on the school board we experienced a slight increase in enrollment and needed to hire a half time elementary teacher.

The Supt put ads out and recieved no applications. ( the economy was better, we were a rural district, so comuting or re-locating for a .5 position wasn't very attractive.

It was then that I learned our district already had 3 teachers teaching half time. ( they were there when I came on the board)

I suggested instead of trying to hire another half time, we offer a fulltime position to one of the 3 half time teachers.

Not only did they inform us that they did not want to go full time, but that they had union seniority and we could not lay any of them off and replace one half timer with a new hire who would be full time. ( and could have gotten many applicants)

How many other union places do you know where a part time employee can refuse going full time and keep their place on the seniority roster?

Maybe it is reasons like this that it is hard to run a school efficently !

Last edited by marmac; 04-17-2010 at 04:37 PM..
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:22 PM
 
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Our students are not allowed to be dropped off at the school until the bell rings at 8:10. If they get there early they have to stand in the front hall or outside until the bell rings, and I teach at an elementary school. The school I taught at last year was the same way.
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,405,144 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
Some stuff in teachers contracts is pure stupidity that would not be tolersted in the " real world"

Example------a few years while on the school board we experienced a slight increase in enrollment and needed to hire a half time elementary teacher.

The Supt put ads out and recieved no applications. ( the economy was better, we were a rural district, so comuting or re-locating for a .5 position wasn't very attractive.

It was then that I learned our district already had 3 teachers teaching half time. ( they were there when I came on the board)

I suggested instead of trying to hire another half time, we offer a fulltime position to one of the 3 half time teachers.

Not only did they inform us that they did not want to go full time, but that they had union seniority and we could not lay any of them off and replace one half timer with a new hire who would be full time. ( and could have gotten many applicants)

How many other union places do you know where a part time employee can refuse going full time and keep their place on the seniority roster?

Maybe it is reasons like this that it is hard to run a school efficently !
I worked part time for 3.5 years as an engineer and kept both my position and seniority. This is typical. Seniority doesn't have anything to do with the number of hours you happen to be working right now. It has to do with the number of years you've been with the company. This worked for both union and non union employees where I worked. As a salaried employee, I was not union.

When the economy was good, it was not unusual for companies to give employees anything they wanted to keep them. The same thing probably wouldn't happen today. With downsizing, part time positions would go first, however, seniority would allow that part timer to opt for a full time position and someone else would get eliminated.
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:23 PM
 
6,293 posts, read 10,536,542 times
Reputation: 7504
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
Some stuff in teachers contracts is pure stupidity that would not be tolersted in the " real world"

Example------a few years while on the school board we experienced a slight increase in enrollment and needed to hire a half time elementary teacher.

The Supt put ads out and recieved no applications. ( the economy was better, we were a rural district, so comuting or re-locating for a .5 position wasn't very attractive.

It was then that I learned our district already had 3 teachers teaching half time. ( they were there when I came on the board)

I suggested instead of trying to hire another half time, we offer a fulltime position to one of the 3 half time teachers.

Not only did they inform us that they did not want to go full time, but that they had union seniority and we could not lay any of them off and replace one half timer with a new hire who would be full time. ( and could have gotten many applicants)

How many other union places do you know where a part time employee can refuse going full time and keep their place on the seniority roster?

Maybe it is reasons like this that it is hard to run a school efficently !
I'm not in a union, and actually there isn't one in my area.
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,405,144 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
Our students are not allowed to be dropped off at the school until the bell rings at 8:10. If they get there early they have to stand in the front hall or outside until the bell rings, and I teach at an elementary school. The school I taught at last year was the same way.
I teach high school. At the elementary school, they have a before/after school latch key program that is free for 45 minutes before/after school so the teachers wouldn't have this problem. At the high school, the kids just hang around until school starts/they are picked up so there are plenty of kids who might want to take the time to work with a teacher who is still there.

If I taught at a public high school where transportation was provided for the students, I probably wouldn't have this issue. I can count on one hand the times I had kids before/after school for tutoring when I student taught. That building was empty 5 minutes after bell rang and there wasn't a teacher in sight 15 minutes after that. Many of the teachers came in very early so they could prep and then left 20 minutes after last bell as is allowed in the contract. While I can leave 30 minutes after last bell, most days, I'd be kicking students out of my room to do so.
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,405,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
I'm not in a union, and actually there isn't one in my area.
Here the districts are union but the charters are not and there is a HUGE difference in workload, pay, benefits and working conditions.
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:45 PM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,113,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I worked part time for 3.5 years as an engineer and kept both my position and seniority. This is typical. Seniority doesn't have anything to do with the number of hours you happen to be working right now. It has to do with the number of years you've been with the company. This worked for both union and non union employees where I worked. As a salaried employee, I was not union.

When the economy was good, it was not unusual for companies to give employees anything they wanted to keep them. The same thing probably wouldn't happen today. With downsizing, part time positions would go first, however, seniority would allow that part timer to opt for a full time position and someone else would get eliminated.
We did offer all 3 the full time position. They all refused.

The union did not allow us to lay off 1 half timer and replace her with a new full time hire.

We were " held hostage" by the union.

We were unable to get applications for another .5 teacher, and if we hired another full time teacher w/o eliminating 1 part time position, we would be paying full time wages to a teacher that was only needed part time.

I don't know of any industry that would/could operate under those union rules.
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Old 04-17-2010, 05:11 PM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,113,469 times
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regarding private school teachers---------since people aren't imposed taxes to support them, that matter is between the school,teachers, and the people who pay the tuition.

Why should people/taxpayers be concerned about teachers' wages in private schools?

Comparing private schools to public schools is apples to oranges.

Taxpayers aren't assessed taxes to pay for teachers' wages in private schools.
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Old 04-17-2010, 05:13 PM
 
6,293 posts, read 10,536,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
regarding private school teachers---------since people aren't imposed taxes to support them, that matter is between the school,teachers, and the people who pay the tuition.

Why should people/taxpayers be concerned about teachers' wages in private schools?

Comparing private schools to public schools is apples to oranges.

Taxpayers aren't assessed taxes to pay for teachers' wages in private schools.

You should care because the children in school today will be the ones who take care of you when you get old!
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Old 04-17-2010, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,405,144 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
We did offer all 3 the full time position. They all refused.

The union did not allow us to lay off 1 half timer and replace her with a new full time hire.

We were " held hostage" by the union.

We were unable to get applications for another .5 teacher, and if we hired another full time teacher w/o eliminating 1 part time position, we would be paying full time wages to a teacher that was only needed part time.

I don't know of any industry that would/could operate under those union rules.
So, if all three refused, then hire 1 full timer and another part timer or see if you have a full timer who wants to go part time so you can hire two full timers. If you absolutely can't find someone, then bring in a long term sub. This isn't rocket science here.

And no, the union wouldn't allow you to lay off one part timer to hire a full timer. If the part time position was agreed to, and I assume it was since the teacher had the part time position, you don't, later, fire them for being part time. Even without a union that one would probably result in a lawsuit.

If the school district wanted the right to tell teachers how long they could be part time, they should have specified that up front. When I was part time, I could only be part time for a period of 3 years. My boss extended it by 6 months when I wasn't ready to come back full time yet. He could have said no.
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