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Old 04-17-2010, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,401,063 times
Reputation: 14692

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
regarding private school teachers---------since people aren't imposed taxes to support them, that matter is between the school,teachers, and the people who pay the tuition.

Why should people/taxpayers be concerned about teachers' wages in private schools?

Comparing private schools to public schools is apples to oranges.

Taxpayers aren't assessed taxes to pay for teachers' wages in private schools.
They shouldn't be. Private schools are private industry. Charter schools are another issue (ironically, they pay just a bad as private schools) because they are funded with public money.
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Old 04-17-2010, 05:46 PM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,110,788 times
Reputation: 8265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
So, if all three refused, then hire 1 full timer and another part timer or see if you have a full timer who wants to go part time so you can hire two full timers. If you absolutely can't find someone, then bring in a long term sub. This isn't rocket science here.

And no, the union wouldn't allow you to lay off one part timer to hire a full timer. If the part time position was agreed to, and I assume it was since the teacher had the part time position, you don't, later, fire them for being part time. Even without a union that one would probably result in a lawsuit.

If the school district wanted the right to tell teachers how long they could be part time, they should have specified that up front. When I was part time, I could only be part time for a period of 3 years. My boss extended it by 6 months when I wasn't ready to come back full time yet. He could have said no.

I sure hope you aren't teaching math.

We had 1.5 positions filled by 3 teachers each filling .5 slots.

( 3x .5=1.5)

We needed an additional.5

Keeping 3 teachers at .5 and --"hiring one full timer and another part timer----- would result in paying an extra 1.5 teacher with pay when only an additional.5 was needed.

I worked in 2 different unions for a total of 29 years.
Was union steward and later President of our local.

Serving on the school board was an eye opener as I never knew such an inefficent and unorthodox union was in existance.

Our union would have allowed the company to drop part time positions if they were offered to go full time and refused.
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Old 04-17-2010, 05:48 PM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,110,788 times
Reputation: 8265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazkat9696 View Post
You should care because the children in school today will be the ones who take care of you when you get old!

what part of--"private"--in private schools do you not understand ?
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Old 04-17-2010, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,401,063 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
I sure hope you aren't teaching math.

We had 1.5 positions filled by 3 teachers each filling .5 slots.

( 3x .5=1.5)

We needed an additional.5

Keeping 3 teachers at .5 and --"hiring one full timer and another part timer----- would result in paying an extra 1.5 teacher with pay when only an additional.5 was needed.

I worked in 2 different unions for a total of 29 years.
Was union steward and later President of our local.

Serving on the school board was an eye opener as I never knew such an inefficent and unorthodox union was in existance.

Our union would have allowed the company to drop part time positions if they were offered to go full time and refused.
Um, no, hiring 1.5 teachers gets you the equivalent of all three teachers going full time. You did say you asked them all to go full time. That WOULD BE the equivalent of 1.5 teachers.

Either find someone else who wants to go part time and hire a full timer or hire a permanent sub. This isn't rocket science.
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Old 04-17-2010, 06:12 PM
 
6,293 posts, read 10,534,284 times
Reputation: 7504
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
what part of--"private"--in private schools do you not understand ?

No matter what school a child goes to one day you will need them.
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Old 04-17-2010, 06:21 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,634,185 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
You do have it good, and apparently you are not smart enough to know it.
The same can be said for you. Even if your job sucks there are lots of people losing their homes because they do not have one. Save your self righteousness, its not warranted.

Quote:
I do not recall blaming anyone; I simply stated the fact that most jobs are more difficult than yours.
Based on what? Your personal opinion? I at least walked the walk, I was in industry for years and worked on a research vessel for 2 years. I know hard work both physical and otherwise. Teaching is not EASY.[/quote]

Quote:
Wise up Chumley, the whole world can not become teachers. In order for the world to function we need people to build houses, repair cars, grow crops, maintain heavy equipment and the thousands of other jobs that make yours seem like a vacation. Most make less than teachers and do not whine about it.
You are. Whining about it that is. Since it is such an easy job how come there has been a shortage of science and math teachers for years? And your point about other professions is nonsense. YOU are the one making the claim that teaching is so easy, YOU could have become a teacher. YOU chose not to. YOU are the whiner here, not the other way around.

Quote:
Your flawed logic is systemic of the type of thinking coming out of schools today. The public is deluged with bond measures every election for ever increasing education costs, and continually told how the problem with education is not enough money, regardless of the fact that the more money we throw at education the worse it gets.
I teach at the number 4 public school district in the country, you have no idea what you are talking about. Flawed thinking? One of my students just got his senior research published. We are an incredibly successful school and that is in part to the teachers. We go WAY above and beyond everyday.

Quote:
Then you justify the fact that the average parent is paying what they are for mediocre results, by stating that teachers pay taxes too. Gee... do you think you have a vested interest. Then you start crying about your pay again.
1. I have never complained about my pay because that was my CHOICE. I CHOSE less pay I only point it out because you are comparing my salary and work load to yours. Thats apples to oranges, if you want to compare use another white collar job with the same education level. Then we can talk.

2. Mediocre? My state has one of the best public school system, and the high property taxes that go with it. Showing once and for all if you want a good school system you better be willing to pay.


Quote:
I know this may be a shock to you but not everyone has the opportunity to go to college and get a no-load job. Some people are saddled with burdens of responsibility at an early age; some are not even able to finish high school.
I am calling BS. Maybe people are CHOOSING not to or maybe they do not have the abilities to make it in college but ANYONE can go. My parents died while I was in college. I had to take responsibility for my siblings. I still was able to finish, just had to make ridiculous sacrifices, including my intended career.


Quote:
In my industry it is not uncommon to have work shifts that go on for 20-30 hrs of hard physical labor, so don't tell me about the option to go to sleep, and forgive me if I cannot pity you for having to grade a few papers, or helping some poor kid understand what you are supposed to teach him after your grueling 6.5hr day .
1. If your job requires you to break the law (aka 20-30 hr shifts) you should call OSHA. But since I think you are full of something that does not smell quite right I doubt you will do that.

2. Who cares what you do? You CHOSE your job, this is not a communist nation where you were assigned to some work camp. If your job is sooooo bad than quit. Get another one. Either way man up already, sheesh.

3. I work from 7am-4pm every day with a 20 min lunch. I can see math is beyond you but that is not 6.5 hrs.

Quote:
Huh? Where exactly did I blame anyone for my choices?: smack: You seem to be under the mistaken impression that everyone came from a prosperous, stable home where they had the option to go to college if they wanted to.
I didnt. I finished college with responsibilities you cannot fathom. Stop acting like you did not have the same shot everyone else gets. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES. I am responsible for mine. Who are you to say that my hard work paying off is something I have not earned?

Quote:
What an incredibly naive view of life you have. Real life can be ugly, unfair, and a struggle to just survive. But I am obviously wasting time trying to explain that to you, it is not something you can relate to.
Because I went to college and graduate school you assume you know my life? Spare me.

You literally have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Quote:
Again, with your upper class prejudice, you are assuming that everyone chooses to be where they are because you did.
Enough with your working class hero prejudice. My father was a boat builder and carpenter. My mom put herself through community college while holding down two jobs. I was not a silver spoon baby. I earned my scholarships through hard work. What utter and complete BS you spew. If I have a white collar job and a great education its because I EARNED it.

Quote:
I do not begrudge you your benefits; you are the one whining you are not being fairly compensated.
Apparently your reading comprehension matches your math skills. I REPLIED to a comment you made where you complained how much easier my job is than yours and how much more money I make. Boo Hoo. I am better educated. Of course I should make more. I only brought up industry salaries to point out how foolish and inept your comparison was.

Quote:
Like you said yourself, you made your choices. The problem lies in that you feel your degree entitles you to more than you are getting.
BS AGAIN from you. I am not entitled to more money, but I am surely earn every penny I make. I even stated that my salary is FAIR because I went into this career knowing what I would make. I would have to be some sort of pathetic moron to pick a career and then complain about how hard it was and how many hours I work and how much easier everyone else has it.
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Old 04-17-2010, 06:27 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,634,185 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
Some stuff in teachers contracts is pure stupidity that would not be tolerated in the " real world"

Example------a few years while on the school board we experienced a slight increase in enrollment and needed to hire a half time elementary teacher.

The Supt put ads out and recieved no applications. ( the economy was better, we were a rural district, so comuting or re-locating for a .5 position wasn't very attractive.

It was then that I learned our district already had 3 teachers teaching half time. ( they were there when I came on the board)

I suggested instead of trying to hire another half time, we offer a fulltime position to one of the 3 half time teachers.

Not only did they inform us that they did not want to go full time, but that they had union seniority and we could not lay any of them off and replace one half timer with a new hire who would be full time. ( and could have gotten many applicants)

How many other union places do you know where a part time employee can refuse going full time and keep their place on the seniority roster?

Maybe it is reasons like this that it is hard to run a school efficently !
You are either lying or have no idea what you are talking about.

Any school district in this nation can remove a teacher by getting rid of their position. Making a NEW full time position and getting rid of two part time ones (or the other way around) is done all the time. All you had to do was RIF the part time teachers. Seniority has no play when it comes to RIFing except the part timers have the option of bumping another less senior part timer.

Last edited by lkb0714; 04-17-2010 at 06:37 PM..
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Old 04-17-2010, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,268,292 times
Reputation: 53065
I work for a year-round private school. I make less there than I would doing the same job in a public school. I choose to work where I work because I like the atmosphere. It's worth it to me to work in the field I work in, and at the school I work for, so much that I willingly accept that the pay is mediocre at best. We all have choices that we are free to make...I choose to bite the bullet on pay to do something I love, because the reality is that my field is undervalued by many and at its most highly paid is still not compensated very well. I don't like that, but I don't dislike it enough to walk away from a job I enjoy and am talented at performing. It's a matter of priorities.
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,401,063 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
I work for a year-round private school. I make less there than I would doing the same job in a public school. I choose to work where I work because I like the atmosphere. It's worth it to me to work in the field I work in, and at the school I work for, so much that I willingly accept that the pay is mediocre at best. We all have choices that we are free to make...I choose to bite the bullet on pay to do something I love, because the reality is that my field is undervalued by many and at its most highly paid is still not compensated very well. I don't like that, but I don't dislike it enough to walk away from a job I enjoy and am talented at performing. It's a matter of priorities.
Can I ask what your field is?

I'm looking into private schools. While the pay is poor, if I can find a better working environment, I'm hoping that won't matter so much. I can handle low pay if there are trade offs like small class sizes and a decent lab to teach in.
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:13 PM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,110,788 times
Reputation: 8265
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
You are either lying or have no idea what you are talking about.

Any school district in this nation can remove a teacher by getting rid of their position. Making a NEW full time position and getting rid of two part time ones (or the other way around) is done all the time. All you had to do was RIF the part time teachers. Seniority has no play when it comes to RIFing except the part timers have the option of bumping another less senior part timer.
not lying and I do know what I'm talking about.

I was on the school board at the time.

The local teachers union told us we could not lay off 1 part time elememtary teacher that had tenure and hire a new teacher from outside to take their .5 and the new .5.

The state teachers union told us the same.

The Assoc of School boards advised us to offer the full time position to one of the part timers.

We did, All 3 refused the offer.

My response was if they ever wanted to go full time in the future, they should be denied.
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