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Old 04-17-2010, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Marion, IA
2,793 posts, read 6,103,550 times
Reputation: 1613

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I have a friend who is a highschool teacher. He's paid $30k for working 75% of the year. So he's making $40k/yr for a plush job with GREAT benefits and GREAT job security. In podunk Iowa that is VERY well off. Add to that the extremely generous pension benefits and I have no sympathy for budget cuts, salary cuts or whatever. It's a damn recession. Welcome to the real world the rest of us live in.
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Old 04-17-2010, 08:20 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,637,209 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
not lying and I do know what I'm talking about.

I was on the school board at the time.

The local teachers union told us we could not lay off 1 part time elememtary teacher that had tenure and hire a new teacher from outside to take their .5 and the new .5.

The state teachers union told us the same.

The Assoc of School boards advised us to offer the full time position to one of the part timers.

We did, All 3 refused the offer.

My response was if they ever wanted to go full time in the future, they should be denied.
1. Of course the union is going to advocate for the union members. Duh.

2. What did the district ATTORNEY tell you?

3. If you are on the BOE its your job to know what the RIF laws entail. Why does RIF not apply here?

The Law on Reduction In Force: An Overview and Update.
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Old 04-17-2010, 08:25 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,637,209 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by zz4guy View Post
I have a friend who is a highschool teacher. He's paid $30k for working 75% of the year. So he's making $40k/yr for a plush job with GREAT benefits and GREAT job security. In podunk Iowa that is VERY well off. Add to that the extremely generous pension benefits and I have no sympathy for budget cuts, salary cuts or whatever. It's a damn recession. Welcome to the real world the rest of us live in.
Not one teacher in this thread has asked for MORE money. Because we all knew going into this field that we were trading high pay for security and benefits as compared to similar private industry jobs.

What I am annoyed with is the idea that we have a "plush" job compared to similarly educated people. Just because we got ourselves educated enough to have a white collar job does not mean we have not worked hard to get that education and do not continue to work hard now.

As for the "real world", no one cares about teachers during an economic upswing or making sure they get the same raises and bonuses other white collar jobs are getting but as soon as there is a downturn all of a sudden everyone is enraged with our tiny but consistent raises. How is that remotely not HYPOCRITICAL?
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,798 posts, read 15,238,193 times
Reputation: 4492
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Not one teacher in this thread has asked for MORE money. Because we all knew going into this field that we were trading high pay for security and benefits as compared to similar private industry jobs.

What I am annoyed with is the idea that we have a "plush" job compared to similarly educated people. Just because we got ourselves educated enough to have a white collar job does not mean we have not worked hard to get that education and do not continue to work hard now.

As for the "real world", no one cares about teachers during an economic upswing or making sure they get the same raises and bonuses other white collar jobs are getting but as soon as there is a downturn all of a sudden everyone is enraged with our tiny but consistent raises. How is that remotely not HYPOCRITICAL?
I agree. When times are good and the topic of conversation was about how well my friends' 401k's were doing, how they were making $30-50k more than I was and buying big new homes in our mid 30's, I was the stupid one who was teaching. I'd get the, "Oh well, you chose your profession" type of comments. At that time we received, at best, 2% COLA each year. Now, some of these same people are jealous of the job security and benefits that I have. Even with other county employees, this can be an issue. Between 2000 and 2002, county employees received 4% and 5% raises. School employees received 2%. When we pushed for what the county employees were getting, the prevailing attitude was, "Be happy with what you are getting". Now that times are "tough", (relatively speaking in this area), we are asking for 1%, but the prevailing opinion seems to be, "Hey, county employees aren't getting a raise either, why should you?" Two years of 0% raises and no step increase would be easier to swallow if the "Good for the goose, good for the gander rule" didn't apply only during tougher economic times.
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Old 04-17-2010, 10:44 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,277,853 times
Reputation: 53066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Can I ask what your field is?

I'm looking into private schools. While the pay is poor, if I can find a better working environment, I'm hoping that won't matter so much. I can handle low pay if there are trade offs like small class sizes and a decent lab to teach in.
My certification is in 7-12 language arts, but due to the setup of my school, I teach whatever subjects are on a student's IEP. I do find that I tend to almost unfailingly get assigned the students where literacy concerns are paramount.

The class size is as as small as it gets. It's 1:1. But it's a school predominantly structured for students with developmental disabilities, communicative disorders, and typically also the often-severe behavioral issues that can often go hand in hand with these diagnoses. A very uniquely structured setup, not a standard classroom setting. It's a transitional school, where students are referrals from mainly public districts that aren't equipped to handle their needs, with the goal to keep students academically on target while addressing behavioral concerns and preparing them for reintegration back into a least-restrictive setting as soon as it's possible to do so. The main goal of where I work is to get behavior under control enough to return to a standard school setting, while not losing ground on IEP goals in the process.

The pay's liveable, but not outstanding, but the environment is fantastic. The work is very, very intense, though. I love the 1:1 aspect of it. When I was in the traditional classroom, I fervently wished all the time that the format allowed for more individualizing, and it took about a decade, but I finally got my wish.
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:20 PM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,113,469 times
Reputation: 8265
Another thing favoring unions in Minnesota is the state law that states contracts must be settled in January or the school district is assessed a penalty ( yes, despite the fact that 2 sides are at the bargaining table, the teacher union gets no penalty)

The penalty is a reduction in state aid per pupil.

A district near me in a city with 70,000 people didn't get their contract settled and the school lost $ 250,000 in state aid. ( yes, a quarter million dollars)

What was the penalty against the teachers union-----nothing

This year it happened again.

Kinda hard to say the teachers want what is best for the students when they have no qualms about prolonging contracts past a date that causes a school district that already has budget worries to lose a quarter million dollars.
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Old 04-18-2010, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,405,144 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
Another thing favoring unions in Minnesota is the state law that states contracts must be settled in January or the school district is assessed a penalty ( yes, despite the fact that 2 sides are at the bargaining table, the teacher union gets no penalty)

The penalty is a reduction in state aid per pupil.

A district near me in a city with 70,000 people didn't get their contract settled and the school lost $ 250,000 in state aid. ( yes, a quarter million dollars)

What was the penalty against the teachers union-----nothing

This year it happened again.

Kinda hard to say the teachers want what is best for the students when they have no qualms about prolonging contracts past a date that causes a school district that already has budget worries to lose a quarter million dollars.
Interesting being on the other side of the union, isn't it.

While I've never been pro union (worked in a union environment for over 20 years), working as a non union teacher, I understand why they exist.

All I can say is if you can't RIF half a teacher so you can back fill with a whole teacher, is you didn't negotiate well, did you?

Either find a part time teacher, get a full time teacher to go part time and hir a full time teacher or just bite the bullet and hire a full time teacher. I, sincerely, doubt half a teacher's salary is going to bankrupt your district. Maybe you can get someone on the school board to take a pay cut to pay for it.

Teachers do want what's best for the students. Don't mistake not letting themselves get walked all over with not caring about the students. They are two different issues.
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Old 04-18-2010, 07:19 AM
 
9,803 posts, read 16,113,469 times
Reputation: 8265
----you didn't negotiate well--

School districts negotiate wages, benefits, and contract days.

The state teachers union will not allow local teacher unions to stray from the state master contract rules.


---not getting walked over---
Like holding out for wage increases when industry is freezing wages in tough economic times ?
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Old 04-18-2010, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,405,144 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by marmac View Post
----you didn't negotiate well--

School districts negotiate wages, benefits, and contract days.

The state teachers union will not allow local teacher unions to stray from the state master contract rules.


---not getting walked over---
Like holding out for wage increases when industry is freezing wages in tough economic times ?
LOL, THAT'S what unions do. Did you not figure that out when you worked for one for all those years?

I've never been on the receiving side of a union but 20 years of dealing with them taught me they hold to the letter of the contract. What good would the contract be if they didn't?

You shouldn't be surprised that they will hold to the letter of the contract. You, probably, did it yourself when you were on the other side but now that it puts you in a difficult position, it's wrong???

I wish we had a union. I'd make a decent wage and they'd protect me against unreasonable demands and unreasonable parents. I'm, probably, going to be fired in a few weeks because I have three parents (two are friends of the owner of our school) who complain about me because their children can't pass my class (I give retakes on tests and I offer after school tutoring (one parent told me "None of that matters"). I have several more who compliment me but that doesn't matter. They'll only hear the ones who complain. The ones who like me won't take their kids out of the school if they fire me but the ones who don't like me will take their kids out of the school if they don't. It's a numbers game.

Unfortunately, teachers are a dime a dozen these days so I'll just be on the street. The upside is when I do find work again, I can't do worse than I have now. I hear we are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to wages and benefits.
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Old 04-18-2010, 08:36 AM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,674,512 times
Reputation: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Not one teacher in this thread has asked for MORE money. Because we all knew going into this field that we were trading high pay for security and benefits as compared to similar private industry jobs.

What I am annoyed with is the idea that we have a "plush" job compared to similarly educated people. Just because we got ourselves educated enough to have a white collar job does not mean we have not worked hard to get that education and do not continue to work hard now.

As for the "real world", no one cares about teachers during an economic upswing or making sure they get the same raises and bonuses other white collar jobs are getting but as soon as there is a downturn all of a sudden everyone is enraged with our tiny but consistent raises. How is that remotely not HYPOCRITICAL?
Oh, please. EVERY teacher wants more money. Teachers here EXPECT raises every year. Their salaries are huge and they have benefits anyone would envy, yet every year they threaten strike if they don't get what they want. It doesn't matter to them if the kids programs get cut as long as the teachers make more every year.
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