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Old 04-18-2010, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,340,496 times
Reputation: 14686

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
Oh, please. EVERY teacher wants more money. Teachers here EXPECT raises every year. Their salaries are huge and they have benefits anyone would envy, yet every year they threaten strike if they don't get what they want. It doesn't matter to them if the kids programs get cut as long as the teachers make more every year.
I don't know that every teacher does but if I were in a district, I'd be happy with what I'd get. I'm not, so my pay starts at and stays at about 20% below what a first year bachelor's teacher would get in a low paying district in spite of having a masters degree and multiple certs. There's nothing I can do to raise my wages other than find work in a union district. Which is why I'm going back for a 4th and 5th certification to make myself more marketable.

Say a prayer for me. I have to take......BIOLOGY , this summer. I HATE dissections with a passion. On the bright side, I won't be able to eat for days so maybe I'll lose some weight.

I am so not a life science person but the only marketable science cert, in Michigan, seems to be the DX or DI (general science) and I don't have one. 7 our of 9 chemistry postings I saw, in the last year, required a DI just to get them to look at your resume so, with two masters degrees in hand, I'm headed back to get an associates degree in earth/life science so I can get a DI. At least they're letting me take all the classes I need at the local community college. That cuts my cost by about 80%.
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:35 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,590,054 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
Oh, please. EVERY teacher wants more money.
I said not one of us in this thread ASKED for more money. Try to read more carefully. There is a difference between wanting something and asking for it. You do not want more money? Seriously, what a silly comment, there is not one person who would turn down more pay.

Quote:
Teachers here EXPECT raises every year. Their salaries are huge
Are you delusional? HUGE? What are you basing that on? I have a masters degree and 10 years experience and I just broke 50k this year. Maybe compared to manual labor but we educated ourselves enough to get white collar jobs and compared to our white collar equivalents we make LESS money. Would you like to see our salary guide?[/quote]

and they have benefits anyone would envy,

Quote:
Envy? Maybe. Then why didnt you become a teacher if we get huge salaries, have an easy job and have enviable benefits?

As for the real world who would work for the fraction of what we could get in private industry if we did not get the benefits to compensate for it? At least to some degree?
yet every year they threaten strike if they don't get what they want. [/quote]

I have no idea where you live but in NJ there has not been a teacher strike in years. Are you making this up a bit as you go on?

Quote:
It doesn't matter to them if the kids programs get cut as long as the teachers make more every year.
Where are you digging this stuff up? First and foremost why shouldn't we get raises? We get tiny incremental raises because there is no way to be promoted as a teacher. Even if you are the best teacher in the world, there is no promotion beyond classroom teacher unless you LEAVE the classroom. How else would you keep effective teacher's in the classroom being most effective unless you offer at least cost of living raises?

As for cutting programs, that is up to the district and the tax payer. Teachers do not decide the budget. In my district the portion of the budget for teacher raises is less than 2% (some 200 teachers) while the portion for raises for administrators and their staff is 1.5% ( some 30 people). Obviously per capita our raises are much, much smaller and are not effecting the budget to the degree that other staffing is per person.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:40 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,664,504 times
Reputation: 2194
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I said not one of us in this thread ASKED for more money. Try to read more carefully. There is a difference between wanting something and asking for it. You do not want more money? Seriously, what a silly comment, there is not one person who would turn down more pay.

Are you delusional? HUGE? What are you basing that on? I have a masters degree and 10 years experience and I just broke 50k this year. Maybe compared to manual labor but we educated ourselves enough to get white collar jobs and compared to our white collar equivalents we make LESS money. Would you like to see our salary guide?


and they have benefits anyone would envy,

yet every year they threaten strike if they don't get what they want.

I have no idea where you live but in NJ there has not been a teacher strike in years. Are you making this up a bit as you go on?

Where are you digging this stuff up? First and foremost why shouldn't we get raises? We get tiny incremental raises because there is no way to be promoted as a teacher. Even if you are the best teacher in the world, there is no promotion beyond classroom teacher unless you LEAVE the classroom. How else would you keep effective teacher's in the classroom being most effective unless you offer at least cost of living raises?

As for cutting programs, that is up to the district and the tax payer. Teachers do not decide the budget. In my district the portion of the budget for teacher raises is less than 2% (some 200 teachers) while the portion for raises for administrators and their staff is 1.5% ( some 30 people). Obviously per capita our raises are much, much smaller and are not effecting the budget to the degree that other staffing is per person.
First, please learn how to use the quote function.


Since it's almost impossible to follow this post as far as what I actually said and what you interjected, I'll go another route.

You have no idea how many teachers who post on here have ASKED for more money. It is simply fabrication, not fact that none have.

In this area the teachers do not fight to keep curricula, but they DO fight and threaten strike every year if they think their raises won't go through and their contracts will reflect anything except upward movement. They get rather nasty when it is suggested they might pay a portion of their insurance benefits, which is full coverage for them and family members.

Must be you live on another planet.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,340,496 times
Reputation: 14686
I just wanted to say that, here, starting pay is in the mid 30's (low for a bachelor's degree) and tops out in 10-20 years assuming you get a masters plus 30 credits. While I do think some of the top salaries of some of the districts are a bit high, most are not. Average teacher wages are somewhere in the mid 50's which is not unreasonable considering the education required, continuing education requirements and the demands of the job. I just wish I was one of them.

From what I can see, charters and private schools pay between $28K and $35K. Some have small matches on 401K contributions and others, like mine, have no retirement plan. Those of us who complain about our wages are usually on the low end here. The fact of the matter is I could stay in the school I teach in now for 15 years and never see my salary even come close to starting with a 4 unless I take on an extra job like coaching football (never going to happen as I can't play the game). I think that is just as rediculous as teachers making $85K because they've been teaching for 20 years. Not many districts pay that high but there are a few that do.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
4,489 posts, read 10,882,288 times
Reputation: 3697
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
First, please learn how to use the quote function.


Since it's almost impossible to follow this post as far as what I actually said and what you interjected, I'll go another route.

You have no idea how many teachers who post on here have ASKED for more money. It is simply fabrication, not fact that none have.

In this area the teachers do not fight to keep curricula, but they DO fight and threaten strike every year if they think their raises won't go through and their contracts will reflect anything except upward movement. They get rather nasty when it is suggested they might pay a portion of their insurance benefits, which is full coverage for them and family members.

Must be you live on another planet.
When my company offered no raises and tried to raise our health care costs lasts year, employees threw fits. Employees immediately started looking for other jobs, trying to negotiate higher salaries, or flat out quitting. Corporate finally realized it was hurting them, and kept benefits the same (there were still no raises). Surprise, a year later, they are DESPERATE for employees and are offering people who quit 30% more to come back to their old jobs. Good foresight on their part...

Bottom line, it's not just teachers who get angry when they don't get raises. The difference is that teachers don't have dozens of other companies to apply at if they get fed up with their current employer.
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Old 04-18-2010, 02:57 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,590,054 times
Reputation: 20851
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
First, please learn how to use the quote function.
I am the one who is using it correctly lol!!!


Quote:
Since it's almost impossible to follow this post as far as what I actually said and what you interjected, I'll go another route.

You have no idea how many teachers who post on here have ASKED for more money. It is simply fabrication, not fact that none have.
You lack basic reading comprehension skills.

What I said was "Not one teacher in this thread has asked for MORE money" in response to a different poster. IN THIS THREAD!!! No one during the course of this thread has said they should get paid more. What part of that cannot you not understand?

Quote:
In this area the teachers do not fight to keep curricula, but they DO fight and threaten strike every year if they think their raises won't go through and their contracts will reflect anything except upward movement.
Keep curricula? What does that even mean? Are you talking about courses, entire grades or individual curricula?

Second, what area are you talking about? Besides we are talking about the general area of teacher pay and not your particular town.

Quote:
They get rather nasty when it is suggested they might pay a portion of their insurance benefits, which is full coverage for them and family members.
First, why shouldn't they have those benefits? They sacrifice higher pay for better benefits. Now you think they should have sacrificed all those years of pay and now not get the better benefits.

Just because YOU CHOSE a job that does not provide that level of benefits teachers are not supposed to have them? Seriously?

Quote:
Must be you live on another planet.
I live in one of the top 5 states for public education and teach in one of the best school districts in the nation. I would agree that may seem like another planet compared to where you live.

If teachers have it so easy why didn't you become one?
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,778 posts, read 15,199,306 times
Reputation: 4471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I think that is just as ridiculous as teachers making $85K because they've been teaching for 20 years. Not many districts pay that high but there are a few that do.
Some of those that pay higher salaries have high costs of living too. Here, a teacher on pay step 20 makes $81,451. I understand how that sounds like a lot to you. I wish I could take that salary to other parts of the country, or heck even within this state. The average monthly rent for a 1 bedroom apartment is $1,321. That eats up a lot of a first year teacher salary of $44,300. In my county 31.8% of the households have incomes of more than $150,000. The median household income in 2008 was $107,448. In Dec. '09, out of 1,000 homes sold, the average home sales price was $452k and the median market value of a home in 2008 (all units) was $502,205.


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Old 04-18-2010, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,340,496 times
Reputation: 14686
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
Some of those that pay higher salaries have high costs of living too. Here, a teacher on pay step 20 makes $81,451. I understand how that sounds like a lot to you. I wish I could take that salary to other parts of the country, or heck even within this state. The average monthly rent for a 1 bedroom apartment is $1,321. That eats up a lot of a first year teacher salary of $44,300. In my county 31.8% of the households have incomes of more than $150,000. The median household income in 2008 was $107,448. In Dec. '09, out of 1,000 homes sold, the average home sales price was $452k and the median market value of a home in 2008 (all units) was $502,205.

Obviously, you're in California. Home inflation capital of the united states. I'm in Michigan. Adjusted for COL, our state teachers are highest paid in the nation. Unfortunately, there are other classes of teachers who aren't even paid a livable wage. Charter and private school teachers. Sadly, if you work in either of those establishments, you need a spouse who can support you. It's very frustrating to want to teach but also to need to make a living. I never expected top pay but I didn't expect to be off of the bottom of the scale either. I always thought charters paid a fair wage beause they are public schools. They don't. Unfortunately, that's where the jobs are.

I wish someone would just average the two. I don't care if I make $80K but I'd sure like to make $50K in a reasonable amount of time.

Rent on a one bedroom apartment here is about $800/month for comparison.
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
4,489 posts, read 10,882,288 times
Reputation: 3697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Obviously, you're in California. Home inflation capital of the united states. I'm in Michigan. Adjusted for COL, our state teachers are highest paid in the nation. Unfortunately, there are other classes of teachers who aren't even paid a livable wage. Charter and private school teachers. Sadly, if you work in either of those establishments, you need a spouse who can support you. It's very frustrating to want to teach but also to need to make a living. I never expected top pay but I didn't expect to be off of the bottom of the scale either. I always thought charters paid a fair wage beause they are public schools. They don't. Unfortunately, that's where the jobs are.

I wish someone would just average the two. I don't care if I make $80K but I'd sure like to make $50K in a reasonable amount of time.

Rent on a one bedroom apartment here is about $800/month for comparison.
It's not California...other places besides California have high cost of living, believe it or not.
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Old 04-18-2010, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,778 posts, read 15,199,306 times
Reputation: 4471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Obviously, you're in California. Home inflation capital of the united states. I'm in Michigan. Adjusted for COL, our state teachers are highest paid in the nation. Unfortunately, there are other classes of teachers who aren't even paid a livable wage. Charter and private school teachers. Sadly, if you work in either of those establishments, you need a spouse who can support you. It's very frustrating to want to teach but also to need to make a living. I never expected top pay but I didn't expect to be off of the bottom of the scale either. I always thought charters paid a fair wage beause they are public schools. They don't. Unfortunately, that's where the jobs are.

I wish someone would just average the two. I don't care if I make $80K but I'd sure like to make $50K in a reasonable amount of time.

Rent on a one bedroom apartment here is about $800/month for comparison.
My bio shows I am in Virginia. I was just trying to show that it isn't necessarily, as you say "ridiculous", that some teachers make $80k after 20 years. After working for 17 years, my wife and I were just able to purchase a very modest 40 year old home for $428k near where we teach.
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