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Old 04-29-2010, 08:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post
According to the special ed manual I have, ADHD is specifically mentioned as OHI. My daughter's issue is not a learning disability at all. She already has a diagnosis and she needs related services. The problem is that it is rare and most people do not know much about it.
If the issue is not a learning disability, the institution dealing sticrly with learning, aka the school, would not get involved with providing services beyond what are basic needs to get and sit in the classroom (ie for a physical handicap).
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:02 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzie02 View Post
I am having a hard time getting an IEP for my dd. She has a doctor diagnosed issue and they are only offering a 504. They say the general ed teacher will do everything that my dd needs while teaching other kids. I just don't see that happening.
What SSI money? I thought that was for the severely handicapped.
SSI money is available for ADHD, ED/BD... probably for others as well. I know the ADHD and ED for sure based on my current school. I have had some that have taken their kid to a doctor often not upon rec. from teacher or other school personnel), gotten a diagnosis, and moved forward with the SSI process. Once on SSI, the child no longer takes meds or takes them sporadically. Not saying this is typical, just saying it is something I (and colleagues in my school and around the district) that does occur at times.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:22 PM
 
3,261 posts, read 5,013,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyway31 View Post
I am the OP. I know what I was asking.

If a district is this willing to just give the parents whatever they want, you'd better believe they'll acquiesce when the parent demands finding a way to classify the kid as SPED. I've seen it happen before. Parent kicks up a fuss and the SST "team" finds a way to make the kid eligible to shut the parent up. There is SO much gray area when it comes to how you can classify a kid as SPED. It's not nearly as scientific or black and white as you might think. Highly subjective and one can easily bend their interpretation of what qualifies.

I expalined why the parent would have a motive to move the kid to a different SPED placement.
If this is your attitude and the attitude of this child's educators, no wonder he isn't successful in school

When my child was first classified, my district was unwilling to accept it and insisted in doing their own evaluations. No district will willingly "cave-in" to every parents demand that they receive SPED, because it's very difficult if not impossible then to un-classfy or mainstream a student (the district's goal not for altruistic reason's but budgetary one's). Believe you me, not many parents are aware of their rights and are capable of dealing with the bureaucracy of a school, special service dept and state & federal law. School districts know this and always put up blocks to fight providing services based on their district's bottom line.

Furthermore, on what basis do you claim that these parents are trying to "game" the system to receive SSI? I'm curious why you came to this conclusion or is the real reason your underlying contempt for SPED services in general?

This parent believes that their child is not succeeding and is looking to receive the supports necessary to accomodate her child. Now I personally would have not waited for my child to fail or for an annual IEP meeting in order to address these issues. If my child were failing, I would be in continuous dialogue with every single teacher /staff working with my child, to see what I could do as a parent and what you could do as their educator.

Last edited by robee70; 04-29-2010 at 10:43 PM..
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:50 PM
 
13,863 posts, read 23,548,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robee70 View Post
If this is your attitude and the attitude of this child's educators, no wonder he isn't successful in school

When my child was first classified, my district was unwilling to accept it and insisted in doing their own evaluations. No district will willingly "cave-in" to every parents demand that they receive SPED, because it's very difficult if not impossible then to un-classfy or mainstream a student (the district's goal not for altruistic reason's but budgetary one's). Believe you me, not many parents are aware of their rights and are capable of dealing with the beaurocracy of a school, special service dept and state & federal law. School districts know this and always put up blocks to fight providing services based on their district's bottom line.

Furthermore, on what basis do you claim that these parents are trying to "game" the system to receive SSI? I'm curious why you came to this conclusion or is the real reason your underlying contempt for SPED services in general.

This parent believes that their child is not succeeding and is looking to receive the supports necessary to accomodate her child. Now I personally would have not waited for my child to fail or for an annual IEP meeting in order to address these issues. If my child were failing, I would be in continuous dialogue with every single teacher /staff working with my child, to see what I could do as a parent and what you could do as their educator.
Reps to you.

The OP comes across as having a grudge against SPED parents and students.
I'm not sure why she/he is taking the placement personally. If the parents want it, and the student has already been evaluated and found to need services, why does it rankle her/him so much? If it's a total failure, then the parents and student live with the results.

As far as it being easy to get an IEP, where? Certainly not in the three states we've lived. My son went through extensive testing, originally in NJ, then again in FL and GA. When he left for college this year the 11 years of IEP reports weren't enough to get services. We had to pay for new testing to be done, even though his high school wrote an entire IEP last May.
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Old 04-29-2010, 11:34 PM
 
Location: in a house
3,574 posts, read 13,740,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Reps to you.

The OP comes across as having a grudge against SPED parents and students.
I'm not sure why she/he is taking the placement personally. If the parents want it, and the student has already been evaluated and found to need services, why does it rankle her/him so much? If it's a total failure, then the parents and student live with the results.

As far as it being easy to get an IEP, where? Certainly not in the three states we've lived. My son went through extensive testing, originally in NJ, then again in FL and GA. When he left for college this year the 11 years of IEP reports weren't enough to get services. We had to pay for new testing to be done, even though his high school wrote an entire IEP last May.
What "services" in college?
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Old 04-30-2010, 03:11 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
2,568 posts, read 6,374,354 times
Reputation: 1925
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyway31 View Post
If the issue is not a learning disability, the institution dealing sticrly with learning, aka the school, would not get involved with providing services beyond what are basic needs to get and sit in the classroom (ie for a physical handicap).
Actually that is not what the law says. The law says educational does not only mean academical, it includes, social, communication, behavior, etc..
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:07 AM
 
13,863 posts, read 23,548,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mm_mary73 View Post
What "services" in college?
He is entitled to textbooks on tape, extended time on tests, somebody to edit his papers with him, and tutoring. He has not felt the need to use all these services yet, but he does request extra time on his tests.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:17 AM
 
1,489 posts, read 2,708,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robee70 View Post
If this is your attitude and the attitude of this child's educators, no wonder he isn't successful in school

When my child was first classified, my district was unwilling to accept it and insisted in doing their own evaluations. No district will willingly "cave-in" to every parents demand that they receive SPED, because it's very difficult if not impossible then to un-classfy or mainstream a student (the district's goal not for altruistic reason's but budgetary one's). Believe you me, not many parents are aware of their rights and are capable of dealing with the bureaucracy of a school, special service dept and state & federal law. School districts know this and always put up blocks to fight providing services based on their district's bottom line.

Furthermore, on what basis do you claim that these parents are trying to "game" the system to receive SSI? I'm curious why you came to this conclusion or is the real reason your underlying contempt for SPED services in general?

This parent believes that their child is not succeeding and is looking to receive the supports necessary to accomodate her child. Now I personally would have not waited for my child to fail or for an annual IEP meeting in order to address these issues. If my child were failing, I would be in continuous dialogue with every single teacher /staff working with my child, to see what I could do as a parent and what you could do as their educator.
Perhaps you didn't read through the entire thread. This student isn't succeeding because he DOES NOT CARE. HE TELLS US AS MUCH. HE ALSO SMOKES MARIJUANA IN THE BOYS BATHROOM DURING OR IN BETWEEN CLASSES. HE FREQUENTLY COMES TO CLASS HIGH. LAUGHING OFF EVERYTHING SAID TO HIM.

There's a huge schism in the world of education (and amongst people posting on message boards like this one). You have the people familiar with schools where kids and parents typically put forth a reasonable effort to succeed in school. And then you have the people familiar with the inner-city, Title I schools. They are two different worlds.

Schools are pefectly fine with putting a kid into special education. There's an entirely separate fund for special education from which the school and district draw money from based on kids enrolled in SPED. Having another kid in SPED would not adversely affect the bottom line of a school.

Why do I think the SSI thing is happening? Let's momentarily disregard the obvious-low-income, welfare or near-welfare status families wanting some extra scratch from the government. Let's look at some true, real world examples.

Example 1:
Parent shows up for an initial meeting-where the student's eligibility for SPED will be determined. Parent has an advocate with them. They discuss amongts themselves completing the forms for SSI. IEP team then begins telling parent all of the details about the kid. Parent interrupts and says "I don't need to hear any of this. Does my kid qualify for SPED?" The answer-from the liberaling declaring students SPED LAUSD-is yes. Parent then asks the advocate if she'll get SSI. The answer is yes. Parent stands up, asks to sign the IEP and immediately leaves the room. The IEP team looked on in dismay as they had not presented their reports. She had no interest in hearing anything the education team found in assessing the kid.

Example 2: I discuss the future with a student who was very proactive in his studies and had all A's and B's in regular classes. He plans to go to college and was applying to a local charter high school. He and I both agreed he was capable of doing/learning anything the regular ed teachers taught. I tell him if he's really serious about his future-going to college and being super-competitive and not wanting to have an asterisk by his name for his accomplishments-, given his having all A's and B's in regular ed classes, he should strongly consider exiting special education. (It's supposed to be the goal of all special educators to accept students into SPED, improve their skills and performance, and then move them back into regular ed. That's the goal.) He tells me point blank, "No, I HAVE to be in special education". I ask "Why?" He says "well, my Mom....." and then trails off and tries to change the subject. Mind you, he-at the age of 14-functions essentially as the "man" of that household. They're a very low-income family with no Dad around. They really like having the extra welfare money from the government. Mom is employed but doesn't make much money to support her three kids.

Example 3: Last year, I was the teacher of the emotionally disturbed class. Out of the blue, a kid is placed in my class. Completely defiant and disruptive from the very moment he walked into the room. I investigate who the kid is and why he was placed in my class. He came directly from having no IEP and being in general ed classes straight to the most restrictive setting on our campus. Turns out his Mom demanded he be labeled as E.D. and placed in the E.D. room. School was very reluctant to go along with this but she continued to demand it. The school district tells the school that if Mom wants it, Mom gets it. Mom was ADAMANT the kid be placed in my class. What's fishy about that? The fact that Mom had never once met me, spoken with me or came to visit my class. Ever. The second or third day after the kid was placed in my class, I call home to try to touch base with the Mom. I called from my cell phone and she didn't recognize the numebr. She tells me she is at a doctor's office and will call me back later. She didn't call back. Meanwhile, the kid is just absolutely clowning all of us. Not just acting up, but enjoying every minute of it and telling us to our faces it's all a game to him. A couple days later, I call back again. Voicemail. Left message, never received call back. Kid continus clowning us. I call back a couple more times trying to reach the Mom. No answer. No call back. The kid has now been a) placed in my room at the Mother's request, b) misbehaved (i.e. stealing things from us, running out of the room on whim, coming up to us and pretending to slap us in the face then pulling back at the last instant and laughing at us etc) c) had his Mom called several times d) all over the course of three months.....and I've yet to talk to the Mother even once for any length of time! Bottom line: E.D. was the only way that kid could qualify for any SPED services and thus the only way Mom could get that SSI money! Once Mom got that she was done! The school year ended with me having never spoken to the Mom.

Example(s)4-1,000,000: As a resource teacher, I've done IEP's for about 30 kids this year. The IEP meeting is a meeting that occurs once per year (unless there is a need/request for additional meetings). How many of those 30 parents showed up for their kid's annual IEP meeting? You'd think a lot. After all, it's a meeting involving multiple professional adults specifically for their kid that is held only once per year. How many? I'd say 10. One third. (Mind you, not showing up doesn't disqualify the parent for SSI.) So many of these parents DO NOT CARE.

Parent wants their kid to receive supports for their failing student. I'd like to receive a wheelchair for my failing legs. Mind you, I'm a fit 32 year old with absolutely no physical disabilities. But, man, it sure would be nice to have someone take me around in a wheelchair. Beats walking everywhere that's for sure.
Look, we have to gauge whether the supports requested are truly needed by the kid because of some sort of short coming/disability OR if they are not needed for those reasons. In so many of these Title 1 schools, the kids in SPED are PERFECTLY CAPABLE. They simply don't give a darn and their lack of effort and compliance wth school/class rules is THE reason why they are failing. We as special educators would be flat out doing a disservice to all of education-including kids like the one I'm describing here-by effectively misdiagnosing the kid as disabled when they are in fact simply clowning all of us. Sadly, "we" do this A LOT. This kid and his parent needs a wake-up call and a swift kick in the ass to get going. Not more government services.

Last edited by skyway31; 04-30-2010 at 10:33 AM..
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:26 AM
 
1,489 posts, read 2,708,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Reps to you.

The OP comes across as having a grudge against SPED parents and students.
I'm not sure why she/he is taking the placement personally. If the parents want it, and the student has already been evaluated and found to need services, why does it rankle her/him so much? If it's a total failure, then the parents and student live with the results.

As far as it being easy to get an IEP, where? Certainly not in the three states we've lived. My son went through extensive testing, originally in NJ, then again in FL and GA. When he left for college this year the 11 years of IEP reports weren't enough to get services. We had to pay for new testing to be done, even though his high school wrote an entire IEP last May.
It's easy to get an IEP in the Los Angeles Unified school district and in other similarly low-performing, inner-city school districts. For a detailed explanation, see my post above.

As for the comment about me having a grudge, I would be curious to get your opinion after you've read the aformentioned post above. Thanks.
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Old 04-30-2010, 02:48 PM
 
3,261 posts, read 5,013,281 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyway31 View Post
Perhaps you didn't read through the entire thread. This student isn't succeeding because he DOES NOT CARE. HE TELLS US AS MUCH. HE ALSO SMOKES MARIJUANA IN THE BOYS BATHROOM DURING OR IN BETWEEN CLASSES. HE FREQUENTLY COMES TO CLASS HIGH. LAUGHING OFF EVERYTHING SAID TO HIM.
In my district, even children with disabilities can & are disciplined.

Quote:
There's a huge schism in the world of education (and amongst people posting on message boards like this one). You have the people familiar with schools where kids and parents typically put forth a reasonable effort to succeed in school. And then you have the people familiar with the inner-city, Title I schools. They are two different worlds

Schools are pefectly fine with putting a kid into special education. There's an entirely separate fund for special education from which the school and district draw money from based on kids enrolled in SPED. Having another kid in SPED would not adversely affect the bottom line of a school.

Why do I think the SSI thing is happening? Let's momentarily disregard the obvious-low-income, welfare or near-welfare status families wanting some extra scratch from the government. Let's look at some true, real world examples.
You mean there are some people in the this country, especially the inner-cities, who live off entitlements and game the system? NO!

You mean to tell me that there aren't some teachers & administrators getting more than they give because of their seniority.

You think that some schools & district who receive special funding, despite failing, have any incentive to change?

We all know that corruption & interests exist even (or especially) in our public schools.

This is a political arguement and has nothing to do with a SPED student needing accomodations and support.

If you feel that this child's parents are taking advantage of the system and your supervisers are culpable of disregarding evidence to that effect because it pads their pockets or boosts their numbers and third parties like psychiatrist, pyschologist, neurologists, etc knowingly were compensated to dole out a fake diagnosis - It is your moral duty to make it known to the necessary powers that be.

In the meantime, I think you should stop painting all SPED students and parents with a broad brush. The majority of us are not scavengers living off everyone else's dime, but hard-working tax-payers as well as parents that want to help our children become productive contributing members of society.[/quote]
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