Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I am opposed to any school curriculum that would not expose students to a global perspective. To not do so is provincial and does not give our children the tools they need to succeed in an international context. The United States is not an island floating alone, isolated from everyone else; to teach about other, non-Western cultures does not mean teaching that this culture is bad.
If you want your child to have an artificially limited education then you do that at home, not expect our public schools to dumb down education. I, personally, would go so far as to suggest that it could be considered outright unpatriotic to deprive students from learning from a global perspective and giving them the opportunity to draw their own conclusions about the world and their country. My experience (which was in the 1990s) was that the courses encourage original research, evaluation of diverse sources of information (and potential biases), and the ability to come to an independent conclusion, rather than just be force-fed "facts." To me, those seem like essential skills, especially in countries like the United States.
I also see that this website doesn't like IB's History of the Americas class; I find that particularly odd, as that was my favorite part about the IB program. As a professional historian who focuses primarily on the history of the United States, I think that most modern American history courses focus almost solely on the United States. Considering how the history, particularly the early history, of this country was not so neatly organized, it makes historical sense to look at the Americas as a whole. It provides a far better and more accurate context for the understanding of the evolution of the United States and how it came to be.
IB certainly isn't the only option out there, and schools don't need IB to provide a great education. But it is a useful tool, and in my experience, at least, the IB courses were superior to AP (although that may vary by subject) and I felt IB classes were more big picture and less about teaching to the test.
This misconception that IB holds the patent on "critical thinking" is perhaps the most disturbing of all. IB seeks to limit the scope of a student's knowledge by reducing content and having them focus "in depth" on singular areas of interest. Often throwing out platitudes like "Less is more" and "IB is an inch wide and a mile deep, while AP is a mile wide and an inch deep", IB undermines the very purpose of secondary education - to provide a broad base of general knowledge.
Facts. They are not always welcome in American public-school classrooms. In his new book, The Making of Americans, E.D. Hirsch Jr. quotes from a letter, written by a teacher, to the New York Times: “High schools need to focus on critical thinking, not facts.” Here is a problem. ”
Last edited by toobusytoday; 06-13-2010 at 07:40 PM..
Reason: copyright - link and a snippet please
I didn't feel that IB limited the scope of knowledge and cut out content in the effort to go in-depth. Perhaps it depends on specific subject. On the classes that I remember most, though, they seemed to cover just as much content as AP, just in a different way that seemed less test-oriented. Then again, I don't think things like "less is more," etc., were ever thrown around at my school. We also had both IB and AP classes, and most of us took a mix of the two.
I took AP American History and IB History of the Americas, and felt that History of the Americas was by far the better course. Then again, I don't think it's a substitute for an American History class, and do think that perhaps the reason I got so much out of the IB class was because I already had a solid foundation of American history (took the AP class in 10th grade, the IB one as a senior). For courses like those in history "facts" get a little more fuzzy than they do in some of the other fields (history does have facts, of course, but the ways in which they're interpreted are part of their significance); I thought the AP class really stripped some of the fun out of the subject in a way that the IB classes did not. It could be quite different in the math or science fields (took those classes, too, but the details blur together a bit more).
I certainly agree that IB is not the only option out there, though. I thought it was better than AP, but really, either one will do the trick. Or, depending on specific school, just a high-quality class with a good teacher (assuming you're not just in it to get the test score that may or may not lead to college credits).
I have to say that it really depends on the school. In our area the only schools that really have IB programs are the sub-standard schools, with a couple exceptions. Most college bound students here take some AP but they mainly take the PESO (post secondary options) or the CIS (college in school) classes. They are college level classes high school juniors and seniors can take that dual count for college credits and high school credits. They are fully transferable unlike the hit and miss of AP and IB classes. Most students enter college with enough credits to start as a sophomore-some even as juniors.
My niece is in the IB program at her school and quite honestly, we have better class selection and more well rounded offerings then she has and our curriculum is more difficult then what she has.
Your daughter will be well prepared either way if her school has high standards. Our kids went to Catholic Schools for elementary school and I do miss the Catholic element to their education (and they do to) but we moved and the public schools in our town are excellent and they are happy there.
The IB organization strictly regulates programs, so I'm not sure I believe that.
This is the best way I can sum up IB. If you have a child that likes to learn for the sake of learning and doesn't care about having an inflated GPA, IB is for her. If she's worried about GPA and class rank, let her take AP classes. The kids that love to learn usually thrive in the IB program, those that do it for the wrong reasons usually end up miserable.
I have an IB diploma and I think it was the best decision I ever made. It sure made college a cake walk, and I had two very difficult majors in chemistry and mathematics.
I think Pennquaker had a valid question: the IB program DOES strictly regulate things (that is one of the reasons schools and students like the IB program -- it cuts across local and national standards and curriculum and gives you something that is as understandable in Brazil as it is in Minnesota); are you suggesting that this particular high school isn't following IB standards? Or is it just that the classes at your regular high school are superior to the IB program? If it is, great; I guess the point there would be that IB isn't the only way to a great education, and one doesn't always HAVE to go with IB (or AP) to receive a high-quality, well-rounded, solid high school education. It's certainly a good option, though. As far as being well-rounded, I think the IB Diploma route practically guarantees a somewhat well-rounded education, but in most schools those who don't want to go the Diploma route can pick and choose which courses they prefer to take IB. Specific course offerings will of course vary by school. At my MN high school IB students had the option of taking regular classes, IB classes, AP classes, and post-secondary classes. Diploma students had less leeway in the schedule, but there was still significant room to pick and choose from an array of options. Certainly that would be something that a parent and student should consider when selecting a school, especially if the student has an interest in specific courses that may not be offered everywhere.
I think Pennquaker had a valid question: the IB program DOES strictly regulate things (that is one of the reasons schools and students like the IB program -- it cuts across local and national standards and curriculum and gives you something that is as understandable in Brazil as it is in Minnesota); are you suggesting that this particular high school isn't following IB standards? Or is it just that the classes at your regular high school are superior to the IB program? If it is, great; I guess the point there would be that IB isn't the only way to a great education, and one doesn't always HAVE to go with IB (or AP) to receive a high-quality, well-rounded, solid high school education. It's certainly a good option, though. As far as being well-rounded, I think the IB Diploma route practically guarantees a somewhat well-rounded education, but in most schools those who don't want to go the Diploma route can pick and choose which courses they prefer to take IB. Specific course offerings will of course vary by school. At my MN high school IB students had the option of taking regular classes, IB classes, AP classes, and post-secondary classes. Diploma students had less leeway in the schedule, but there was still significant room to pick and choose from an array of options. Certainly that would be something that a parent and student should consider when selecting a school, especially if the student has an interest in specific courses that may not be offered everywhere.
Are you saying your nieces school doesn't offer as many arts and athletics? Because none of these things have anything to do with the actual IB program. That's something more attributed to the school itself.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
