El Paso is Changing

[kidicarus89]

Originally Posted by BamaCrazy

The problem with all of the changes is all these bright ideas are being paid for by tax payers. In fact, the City Council can't seem to think of an idea that doesn't involve increasing property taxes. I pay $4,500 a year, and I have friends who pay as much as $6,500 annually. Nothing is approved by the voters and tax payers, and the politicians of this city take advantage of the poor and uneducated citizens of this city by not giving them a voice.

Need a baseball stadium built? The tax payers have you covered. Need some walk in medical clinics for the 250,000 uninsured citizens of this city? The tax payers are happy to pay to build them, plus pay for their medical care. Want to spend over $200,000,000 to improve parks, museums, etc? No problem, the taxpayers have got you covered.


If you are from this city, you have to wonder why they didn't build somewhere nice to watch boxing or soccer, instead of baseball. After UTEP tried to cancel the last Chavez fight because of the perceived danger of drug cartels, a new location controlled by the city would make more sense than a baseball stadium. The teams at Cohen and UTEP never get supported, so what makes the geniuses on the Council think that this low income area is going to support a semi-pro baseball team?

Parks, museums and quality of life are all items paid for by taxpayers in any city, excluding the occasional large-amount donor. I do agree that this city depends far too much on residential property taxes because of the low corporate tax base, and city leaders really need to address this. Also, remember that you pay higher property taxes because Texas has no income tax, so cities have to make up that difference somewhere, and that somewhere is property taxes. It's still much cheaper to live here than elsewhere around the country, though!

[kidicarus89]

Originally Posted by AH-64Dpilot

El Paso will never be a relevant city to American's not of Mexican ancestry due to the neighbor down south. Sorry it's the truth.

It looks like living in America is going to be tough for you then in the future, seeing as whites are a decreasing majority in most regions. Might want to try Northern Europe.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by BamaCrazy

The problem with all of the changes is all these bright ideas are being paid for by tax payers. In fact, the City Council can't seem to think of an idea that doesn't involve increasing property taxes. I pay $4,500 a year, and I have friends who pay as much as $6,500 annually. Nothing is approved by the voters and tax payers, and the politicians of this city take advantage of the poor and uneducated citizens of this city by not giving them a voice.

Need a baseball stadium built? The tax payers have you covered. Need some walk in medical clinics for the 250,000 uninsured citizens of this city? The tax payers are happy to pay to build them, plus pay for their medical care. Want to spend over $200,000,000 to improve parks, museums, etc? No problem, the taxpayers have got you covered.


If you are from this city, you have to wonder why they didn't build somewhere nice to watch boxing or soccer, instead of baseball. After UTEP tried to cancel the last Chavez fight because of the perceived danger of drug cartels, a new location controlled by the city would make more sense than a baseball stadium. The teams at Cohen and UTEP never get supported, so what makes the geniuses on the Council think that this low income area is going to support a semi-pro baseball team?

Taxes are getting to be the real killer here. It's absurd that you have to pay the local government $400 and more a month to be able to keep a home that you supposedly own. As for tourism, it's too bad the leadership here has no appreciation at all for history and historical buildings. El Paso for some reason does not value history or try to preserve anything -- then wonders why there's nothing for tourists. They notice San Antonio has a Six Flags and Sea World but they overlook the fact that San Antonio also has an Alamo and Old Town, tourists flock to see the Alamo but if the Alamo were here, it would have been dynamited.

[mistabinks]

Originally Posted by BamaCrazy

After UTEP tried to cancel the last Chavez fight because of the perceived danger of drug cartels, a new location controlled by the city would make more sense than a baseball stadium.

Incorrect. UTEP did not try to cancel the Chavez Jr. fight. In fact, UTEP was successful in regaining the fight. It was the UT Chancellor, who is not located in El Paso, that canceled the fight.

Originally Posted by BamaCrazy

The teams at Cohen and UTEP never get supported, so what makes the geniuses on the Council think that this low income area is going to support a semi-pro baseball team?

Incorrect. The current unaffiliated and independent Diablos average 4200 fans a game. The affiliated AA Diablos constantly led the Texas League in attendance. El Pasoans like quality baseball.

UTEP football is constantly in the top third in attendance in CUSA.

UTEP men's basketball is constantly number two in attendance in CUSA.

UTEP women's basketball is constantly number one in attendance in CUSA.

The incoming AAA franchise is not "semi-pro" baseball. It is professional baseball. The closest level to Major League Baseball. El Paso will support it.

[BamaCrazy]

Originally Posted by mistabinks

Incorrect. UTEP did not try to cancel the Chavez Jr. fight. In fact, UTEP was successful in regaining the fight. It was the UT Chancellor, who is not located in El Paso, that canceled the fight.



Incorrect. The current unaffiliated and independent Diablos average 4200 fans a game. The affiliated AA Diablos constantly led the Texas League in attendance. El Pasoans like quality baseball.

UTEP football is constantly in the top third in attendance in CUSA.

UTEP men's basketball is constantly number two in attendance in CUSA.

UTEP women's basketball is constantly number one in attendance in CUSA.

The incoming AAA franchise is not "semi-pro" baseball. It is professional baseball. The closest level to Major League Baseball. El Paso will support it.

Actually, UTEP Football got their average attendance up above 30,000 in 2012 for their first 3 games for the first time since 2008. But ended the season below 30,000. Almost all their games where they had high attendance was when they played against teams that were way better than them, and fans really just wanted to see a real team play. That is why the only game I went to see last year was the Oklahoma game.

Oklahoma - 40,137 - Loss
Mississippi - 53,133 - Loss
USF - 39,628 - Loss
NM State -39,214 - Loss
Arkansas - 67,330 - Loss
Texas - 101,144 - Loss (probably an away game)
Texas - 53,415 - Loss (probably a home game)
Texas Tech - 52,403 - Loss

Them games go all the way back to 2007.
University of Texas at El Paso Official Athletic Site - Football

I don't follow basketball, but you said top 3 constantly about football, when there has not been anything constant about football attendance. If you look at the attendance in that link I provided, you will see good attendance the first few games, then a drop into the teens after that unless they play a NCAA 1A team.

I also know that the baseball team that is coming is called professional, but it is nothing but a feeder team, with a small percentage of the players hoping to make it to a real MLB team. It is also a team that didn't get supported in Tucson, and struggled to find a home, and was ranked last in their division.

[mistabinks]

Originally Posted by BamaCrazy

Actually, UTEP Football got their average attendance up above 30,000 in 2012 for their first 3 games for the first time since 2008. But ended the season below 30,000.

That doesn't discount my point. UTEP has consistently been in the top third in attendance in Conference USA.

Originally Posted by BamaCrazy

Almost all their games where they had high attendance was when they played against teams that were way better than them, and fans really just wanted to see a real team play.

I love my Miners and I am a proud season ticket holder. That being said, most FBS schools are way better than them. That also being said, everything else in that quote is speculation - at best. There are other schools, with better records, who play better teams, that would love to receive the support UTEP receives from El Paso.

Originally Posted by BamaCrazy

I don't follow basketball, but you said top 3 constantly about football, when there has not been anything constant about football attendance. If you look at the attendance in that link I provided, you will see good attendance the first few games, then a drop into the teens after that unless they play a NCAA 1A team.

When attendance is averaged for the year, and the numbers are released, UTEP is consistently in the top third of CUSA. UTEP has a long, long history of losing. So yes, the numbers start off extremely strong and dip toward November. That is no secret. Also, it's FBS and FCS. It's not IA etc.

Originally Posted by BamaCrazy

I also know that the baseball team that is coming is called professional

You are the one that called it "semi-pro."

Originally Posted by BamaCrazy

but it is nothing but a feeder team, with a small percentage of the players hoping to make it to a real MLB team.

Correct. That is the way Minor League Baseball works. El Paso is well aware of that. That is why the AA Diablos were such a success. I'm betting it will be again when we have AAA talent. Regardless, it will be much better baseball than the current unaffiliated and independent Diablos who average 4200 fans a game and are well supported.

Originally Posted by BamaCrazy

It is also a team that didn't get supported in Tucson, and struggled to find a home, and was ranked last in their division.

Correct. If the team had received wild support in Tucson, the franchise would never have gone up for sale. Their loss will be our gain. Also, MountainStar has stated they have a commitment from the San Diego Padres to put more emphasis into the quality of competition at the AAA level.

As you said though, MiLB is a feeder system. MiLB is not about wins and losses. MiLB is Americana and about attending a professional baseball game. El Pasoans will be setting themselves up for disappointment if their support of the AAA ball club hinges on wins and losses.

[Chuco]

+1 Mistabinks!!

Wow it looks like this "Bama" person doesn't even know what they are talking about...

[SA2EP?]

Originally Posted by BamaCrazy

I also know that the baseball team that is coming is called professional, but it is nothing but a feeder team, with a small percentage of the players hoping to make it to a real MLB team. It is also a team that didn't get supported in Tucson, and struggled to find a home, and was ranked last in their division.

Where a team ranks in AAA really doesn't matter that much to the baseball enthusiast. Most people go watch affiliated baseball because its a chance to see players who are on assignment from the bigs because they are recovering from an injury or guys that are close to moving up or who had a short stint in the bigs but came back down because they need a little more seasoning.

Its nice if the team is doing really well...but truly...as a fan...all I want is a competitive baseball game when watching the minor leagues.