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In general, I dont think it's really that bad in El Paso based on race relations, I remember growing up and we did have some race on race wars down in the Lower Valley, Bel Air high school riots pitting Chicanos against blacks and Ysleta high school pitting Chicanos against whites, that was all prior to 1974 and I hav'nt ever heard of those incidents repeating themselfs again unless I missed something prior to the invention of the internet.
Theres racism everywhere, people are in denial when they say it aint so mainly because they are the ones doing all the discriminating, they just want to keep a lid over things and pretend nothing is wrong.
I live in Northern California and we have it here as well, not as bad or spontanious as other places, because we have strict laws against the hate mongers, but even here as melting pot as it may be, the Asians stick to themselfs rarely socialize outside of their Asian social circles, but there have been a few outbreaks mostly the high school kids where you have Asian against blacks or blacks against Spanish speaking people, so no telling what goes on in other American cities.
But I still think that El Paso has a better handle on the race issue problem than other parts of the country, kids there dont fight or beat each other up over the shade of some stupid tree.
Based on my personal experience and observation, I feel safe in saying, in El Paso, the only color that matters is green - $$$. Is there racism? You betcha. Is it overt? No, not really. That is one of the very few things I can praise about EP, and I can provide many examples.
My co-worker, who is Jewish, lived in one of those sprawling Westside homes. She and her husband, both doctors, had lived in cities including Phoenix, New York, Atlanta, somewhere in Virginia, D.C., and of all the amazing places they lived, they liked EP the best. I thought they were nuts, but my co-worker said she and her husband, one, really loved EP, and, two, they had never lived in a city with such excellent race relations and thought EP would be great place to raise their children. She told me a black/African-American family lived next door on one side and a white family lived next door on the other. She mentioned the Mexican/Hispanic family across the street and the East Indian family a few houses from hers. My response was, "Only in El Paso." Her reply, "You're not kidding! I've never lived in a place like this, where we can be Jewish without living surrounded by other Jewsish families and where my neighbors don't care that we're Jews!" Right on, El Paso!
On the flip side: When I was a kid in about the 3rd or 4th grade, a white school nurse was in her office doing vision screenings or something. She called my name, and when I walked up to her, she said, "Finally, someone with a good old American name!" Even at that young age, I wondered if that was a nice thing for her to say or not. I thought not.
Next example: I've heard that nasty "n word" used in EP a few times in the many years I lived there. The irony is, those I heard spew that ugly word were Hispanics who were as dark as or darker than many black people. Self hate, perhaps? One super dark, stupid, ignorant Latino (idiots come from all ethnicities) guy actually wore a KKK costume to a Halloween party. No, he was not "owning" the terror sheets so as they could not be used against him. He was just so lacking in self-awareness, he thought it was funny while believing he was something he's not. I remember thinking, it's a good thing that fool was in El Paso, because if he was elsewhere in Texas, he may have been lynched!
Next: In high school, there was this beautiful black girl. I mean she was beautiful inside and out. She went to one of the schools in EP that had like three or four black students total. Lovely face, killer body, perfect legs, flawless skin, smart, active in school activities, etc. She had the whole package, yet she NEVER had a boyfriend or a single date in H.S. She didn't go her homecoming dance. She didn't go to her prom! Of course, guys liked her. Everyone liked her, but the boys couldn't admit their attraction so they made this uber feminine girl their "buddy" because there was no way in h*ll they'd ever date a black girl. The Latino and white guys are saying only NOW, almost 20 years after high school, they had crushes and wanted a taste of "chocolate" (sorry, that sounds nasty), but there was no chance of them going out with her because she wasn't white, Hispanic, or even Asian. She left EP and was married in her second year of college.
Another, and what I think is the most hypocritical example: I've personally known several Latinas whose families/parents went ballistic at the knowledge their daughters would even consider dating black men. A friend's Mexican-American family threatened to disown her if she didn't dump her black boyfriend. She dumped him. Another friend of mine who accepted a date from a black guy didn't have to worry about being disowned. Her father became so violently angry, she cancelled the date. Now, the hypocrisy is, the Latino families of these girls have absolutely NO problem with their daughters dating white men. In fact, the parents encourage them to marry white men, and some of them have. It can be nothing but racism because, in some cases, these parents would rather marry their girls off to some alcoholic, not-so-nice, wife-beater white guy instead of a highly successful, educated, responsible black man, which 99.999% of black El Pasoans are. (Okay, so I don't know the exact statistics, but African-Americans are most all middle to upper-class professionals. And, I don't know if it's still true, but blacks in El Paso were (are?), per capita, the most highly educated citizens. The daughter of an El Paso surgeon, who is black, told me that. I also remember reading it in the old newspaper, The Herald Post, some years ago.)
Last, it has been my observation that there is a unique relationship among whites and blacks in El Paso that exists no place else. The few people I've discussed this with believe, as I do, there is bond between black and white due to both being such minor minorities in a city with it's own very distinct culture, food, music, celebrations (Quinceaneras), holidays, traditions, and language.
Overall, I don't believe EP has a racial problem - just as long as Latinas don't bring black men home for dinner.
Last edited by Desert Raven; 11-23-2007 at 06:05 PM..
Reason: Some typos, grammar
Overall, I don't believe EP has a racial problem - just as long as Latinas don't bring black men home for dinner.
I'm not sure racism isn't overt but it depends a lot on what type of work you do and age group and so on.
Among professional types, there wouldn't be much overt racism but El Paso has had some pretty bad race riots in the high schools. Kids here that don't speak Spanish will face some pretty bad racism depending on the high school they attend. People are actually berated in public for not "knowing the language".
A woman I knew who was half hispanic but white said she had grown up with the racism here and didn't see it until she left town. She said she found it almost strange but very refreshing to not constantly be referred to as an anglo or guera. She said here it was on a daily basis she was called those names (even though she was hispanic) but it had become so normal that she didn't see it.
Ive noticed alot of "sneak" racism, since i started reading the posts directed towards el paso, i think i would respect individuals more if they came out & just said i dont like mexicans, instead of pussyfooting around the subject.
The reverse should also be true -- there are many here who don't like Americans and they don't hide it all that well. People think because they're speaking in Spanish that everyone doesn't understand what they're saying -- and I've heard some very nasty references especially about blacks but also against anyone who isn't from Mexico.
^^^ malamute, who doesn't like Americans? Mexican-Americans? Because Mexican-Americans are American too, and many that I know despise Mexican nationals.
I guess I wasn't in EP when there was rioting in the schools because I never heard anything about that. I remember a couple of incidents at Austin H.S. and at Andress, I think. But I wouldn't call those events riots. To me a riot involves distruction of property, setting fires, mass fighting, looting and such.
I guess we also have different ideas about what is and is not overt racism. To me, overt racism in isn't about one group saying bad things about another. Overt racism, in my eyes, is when you and your black friend go into a "better" department store (in Central TX), and the sales associate and security are on you like white on rice. They don't ask if you need assistance, mind you. They just want to be sure the black person doesn't steal anything. Overt racism is when black and Latina women are told to check their big purses at the door of a store because it is assumed they are shoplifters. Overt racism is when a Latino at a prestigious religious university is told by other students that he doesn't belong there because the only reason he got in is his being Mexican helped the school meet its minority quota. Nevermind the fact that he has a genious I.Q. and got near perfect SAT scores. Overt racism is when Latinos live on the east side of town, blacks live on the south side, whites live on the north side, rich whites, who don't associate with "white trash", live in the suburbs, and the poor of any race fill in the blanks.
Those are just a few of the examples that I've personally witnessed when not living in EP. To the best of my knowledge, that stuff doesn't happen in EP.
Last edited by Desert Raven; 11-24-2007 at 02:42 PM..
^^^ malamute, who doesn't like Americans? Mexican-Americans? Because Mexican-Americans are American too, and many that I know despise Mexican nationals.
I guess I wasn't in EP when there was rioting in the schools because I never heard anything about that. I remember a couple of incidents at Austin H.S. and at Andress, I think. But I wouldn't call those events riots. To me a riot involves distruction of property, setting fires, mass fighting, looting and such.
I guess we also have different ideas about what is and is not overt racism. To me, overt racism in isn't about one group saying bad things about another. Overt racism, in my eyes, is when you and your black friend go into a "better" department store (in Central TX), and the sales associate and security are on you like white on rice. They don't ask if you need assistance, mind you. They just want to be sure the black person doesn't steal anything. Overt racism is when black and Latina women are told to check their big purses at the door of a store because it is assumed they are shoplifters. Overt racism is when a Latino at a prestigious religious university is told by other students that he doesn't belong there because the only reason he got in is his being Mexican helped the school meet its minority quota. Nevermind the fact that he has a genious I.Q. and got near perfect SAT scores. Overt racism is when Latinos live on the east side of town, blacks live on the south side, whites live on the north side, rich whites, who don't associate with "white trash", live in the suburbs, and the poor of any race fill in the blanks.
Those are just a few of the examples that I've personally witnessed when not living in EP. To the best of my knowledge, that stuff doesn't happen in EP.
No -- I didn't say Mexican-Americans (or plain Americans if they prefer) dislike other Americans -- in general I think they do like them and even identify with them. I don't know if many despise Mexicans from Mexico -- likely some do but most of the people I know aren't all that excited about them. I hear the comments at work -- often about "juarenos".
I don't think it's really "racism" though -- something else. A guy I know from some small town in Mexico told me the people who made it hardest for him were the people here who had come from Juarez but earlier than he (he was high school age when he arrived) -- he said the irony -- they would call him a juareno even though he was not one. He said that Americans left him alone -- including Mexican Americans --- especially since he started out Spanish speaking and didn't interact with English speakers.
Some of what we have here are the social levels from Mexico -- like when people discuss whether their families were for or against Pancho Villa --- it can get interesting.
I guess we also have different ideas about what is and is not overt racism. To me, overt racism in isn't about one group saying bad things about another.
Yes -- it does sound like you use another definition than I. For one -- to me if rich whites don't want to live with poor whites -- that's not overt racism or any kind of racism.
To me racism is any belief that certain non-physical traits are linked to the race itself. It can even be positive traits -- like thinking when you meet an Asian that he must be good in math because you judged him by his race.
Or that blacks are less inclined to work hard -- so that a black person you never before met is judged to be less hard working. That kind of racism harms someone because in a job interview you may have sized up the job application on something other than his resume and even references.
But I think it's racist to refer to someone as "anglo" because it assumes that everyone not from Mexico is of British origin -- completely ignoring that their ancestry may be Polish, Swedish, German, Italian and so on.
I understand, malamute, and you are correct. Rich whites vs poor whites is a class issue not a racial one. (Only it is, in a way, when the upper classes reject people of their own race, discriminate, and equate the poor with the minority races they hate, but, yes, I get what you're saying.) Regardless, I was referring to segregation as a result of racism, and that doesn't happen in El Paso. If you have the money, you can live where you want to live in EP. The city isn't divided into sections according to race. As I posted above, the only color that really matters in EP is green.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on what is overt and covert racism. See, imo, what you describe - beliefs and stereotypes which may lead to a person not getting a job - is the very definition of covert racism. You can't see what is going on in the racist's head or heart, so the burden of proof falls on the person who believes he lost the job because of racism. The examples I gave are overt. One can actually see, hear, witness people being mistreated because of their race.
It's all good discussion, malamute, but I don't believe right there, "in your face" racism is a problem in EP like it is in other parts of Texas or the country, for that matter.
Yes, there is racism in El Paso just like there is in all cities.
However, in El Paso its from hispanics to whites.
There is descrimiation in the workplace for those that are monolingual
Overall, I would not say its a major issue. I would rate it a 7 out of 10, with 10 being worst.
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