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Comparing Fort Bliss to Fort Dix is like comparing the state of Texas with the state of New Jersey. Fort Dix is a tiny landlocked post surrounded by higher priced suburbs. Training at Fort Dix is practically impossible as the post only contains little over 10 square miles anyway.
On the other hand, Fort Bliss has over 1,700 square miles of training ground and the adjacent White Sands Missile Range is even bigger. The movement of large numbers of troops to Bliss isn't due simply because of the whims of Congress; it's because Fort Bliss is the most practical and economical place in the States to station and train large numbers of troops on site. As a soldier myself, and one of those heading to El Paso, I can assure you that the new administration won't try and cut costs by trimming the growth of Bliss which is being done to save the Army money over the long haul. Expensive weapon systems such as the Joint Strike Fighter will be attacked by Barney Frank and his buddies long before Fort Bliss, as well they should be.
In fact, the sheer logistics and transportation expenses incurred by the military transporting soldiers to and from large training sites from smaller posts is what killed places like Fort Dix, Fort Monroe, and the Presidio of San Francisco. It's simply not cost effective to locate vast numbers of soldiers on posts where they can't train.
While I agree that El Paso shouldn't place all it's "eggs in one basket" by relying too much on Fort Bliss and it's soldiers, the growth at Fort Bliss won't be slowing down anytime in the near future. Besides, San Antonio has excelled as a city driven by the military and is a much better comparison for El Paso/Fort Bliss than Fort Dix and New Jersey.
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Originally Posted by luplor
Texas, I just read your comment about BRAC and the possibility that the budget could affect FT Bliss. Barney Frank stated a month ago that he had plans to cut the military by 200 million dollars. Even though we have units returning from overseas and they need a place to go, what usually happens in a Democratic Administration and of course with a recession in place , they cut the number of military people and equipment. As I stated previously, look at FT Dix, a very large base and for that matter FT Ord. Could it happen here, definitey yes, the military is affected by politics, mission and world events NOT what the local people want or need. That's why I say El Paso is relying too much on the military. You have to prepare a backup industry just in case they do scale down or close. I am trying to open people eyes to SMART grownth and industry development and not buy into the sugar coated stories. The builders in this area have too much influence, where else in America would they expect the city to pay for sewage lines to new homes so they can save the home buyer money. Anywhere else you build at your own risk. Their logic is a joke, reminds me of the slum lord that says if it wasnt for him, underpriviledged people wouldnt have a cheap place to live. That's the logic for him not to repair cheap homes. One more point, look at Tobyhanna Army Depot, a depot where military electronic equipment is repair, tested and development new equipment. Pretty important and necessary mission. That town developed completely based on the military. They have tried to close it the last two BRACs and only thru fierce Senator and Congressman pressure did it stay open. Property values have dropped very low and people are leaving because it is only a matter of time. A lot of people left so a Tobyhanna Recruiter was here at a Job fair to replace the lost workers.
property taxes in el paso are quite high, even when compared to other cities in texas. there is little industry in el paso, and property taxes are one of the few ways of building revenue.
Maybe you have not been to the training grounds in California, or Georgia? Both are right next to big naval ship yards to ship tanks and other weapons off to war zones in other countries, saving money in shipping stuff cross country first.
Barny the lovable dinosaur.. but stupid polictical figure will in fact attack weapon systems and pork in that area, but he also said he will cut the military, cut spending for the military, and dismantle units in an attempt to save money.. also said they would pull the army out of IRAQ and other theaters to save money. So Barney has no clue, and talks out his 5th point of contact.. but that still does not mean he is to be ignored.. all dinosaurs are dangerous.
San Antonio just lost a couple military bases, tell me how did that effect them? San antonio also has other indrustry besides the military, like a car plant, tourism, and pro sports. San Antonio is also in the midst of Texas and not on the frindges of the state completely ignored. So compairing San Antonio to El Paso is also like comparing Apples to Oranges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasTiger14
Comparing Fort Bliss to Fort Dix is like comparing the state of Texas with the state of New Jersey. Fort Dix is a tiny landlocked post surrounded by higher priced suburbs. Training at Fort Dix is practically impossible as the post only contains little over 10 square miles anyway.
On the other hand, Fort Bliss has over 1,700 square miles of training ground and the adjacent White Sands Missile Range is even bigger. The movement of large numbers of troops to Bliss isn't due simply because of the whims of Congress; it's because Fort Bliss is the most practical and economical place in the States to station and train large numbers of troops on site. As a soldier myself, and one of those heading to El Paso, I can assure you that the new administration won't try and cut costs by trimming the growth of Bliss which is being done to save the Army money over the long haul. Expensive weapon systems such as the Joint Strike Fighter will be attacked by Barney Frank and his buddies long before Fort Bliss, as well they should be.
In fact, the sheer logistics and transportation expenses incurred by the military transporting soldiers to and from large training sites from smaller posts is what killed places like Fort Dix, Fort Monroe, and the Presidio of San Francisco. It's simply not cost effective to locate vast numbers of soldiers on posts where they can't train.
While I agree that El Paso shouldn't place all it's "eggs in one basket" by relying too much on Fort Bliss and it's soldiers, the growth at Fort Bliss won't be slowing down anytime in the near future. Besides, San Antonio has excelled as a city driven by the military and is a much better comparison for El Paso/Fort Bliss than Fort Dix and New Jersey.
Like I said before, I'm in the Army so I'm fairly certain in what I'm telling you. The only "training grounds" for soldiers in California is at Fort Irwin in the desert and in Georgia among the pines at Benning, Gordon, and Stewart. I therefore assume you're thinking of the Marines, and since they are a part of the Department of the Navy, it only makes sense that their posts are close to naval yards.
Take a look at the largest Army posts in the nation and you'll notice hardly any are near naval ports. In fact the biggest ones are in the middle of country where land is plentiful. Bliss, Hood, Stewart, Leonard Wood, Benning, Campbell, Riley, Bragg, Knox, Drum, Rucker. Loading gear onto trains, planes, or ships for a war are indeed costly and expensive, but wars happen every decade or so. On the other hand most active units do some type of field training with all of their gear at least twice a year when in garrison. It's still infinitely less expensive to station and post troops next to these large expanses where training is conducted in the middle of the country than it would be to leave them at a crowded port on the coast where at least twice a year they would have to load up and head to places like Bliss or White Sands to conduct field exercises. Not only that, but most of the gear used in Iraq or Afghanistan has been there for years, and the new units simply equip themselves with what had been used by the soldiers there before them.
While San Antonio may have lost a couple of bases in name, it's still the single largest concentration of military folk in between San Diego and Washington DC. If you read my comments earlier, I actually agreed that El Paso should do it's best to diversify it's economy so as to not "put all of its eggs in one basket" like San Antonio has. My only point was that the expansion taking place at Fort Bliss is quite a bit more secure than some of you guys seem to think and that El Paso has much more in common with San Antonio than New Jersey.
Do you just enjoy arguing or did I touch a nerve regarding something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhnay
BULL POOPY!
Maybe you have not been to the training grounds in California, or Georgia? Both are right next to big naval ship yards to ship tanks and other weapons off to war zones in other countries, saving money in shipping stuff cross country first.
Barny the lovable dinosaur.. but stupid polictical figure will in fact attack weapon systems and pork in that area, but he also said he will cut the military, cut spending for the military, and dismantle units in an attempt to save money.. also said they would pull the army out of IRAQ and other theaters to save money. So Barney has no clue, and talks out his 5th point of contact.. but that still does not mean he is to be ignored.. all dinosaurs are dangerous.
San Antonio just lost a couple military bases, tell me how did that effect them? San antonio also has other indrustry besides the military, like a car plant, tourism, and pro sports. San Antonio is also in the midst of Texas and not on the frindges of the state completely ignored. So compairing San Antonio to El Paso is also like comparing Apples to Oranges.
It should also be pointed out that the division moving its HQ's to Fort Bliss, the 1st Armored Division, is coming from Germany. Garrisons in Germany and Korea are insanely expensive and cost cutting is another main reason Bliss is growing like it is (along with having plenty of land for training). It wouldn't make any sense for Democracts to trim the size of a post which is only growing to save the Army millions of dollars and which is located in a metro that is primarily Democrat. I'll be the first to admit that politicians aren't the brightest folks but this would be political suicide in a state they eventually hope to turn blue.
If House and Senate Democrats do wind up trying to trim the size of the Army (which I doubt they will) or cutting the number of active duty garrisons (much more likely), it's likely overseas posts would be affected first. International land leases aren't cheap to say the least.....
Anyway, this is all incredibly off tangent so I'll gop back to lurking and listening to the locals.
Well Tiger, I too was in the Army. I live in El Paso, born and raised sad to say.. and was a DA police officer on post for 2 years. So I can say BULL POOPY to you because I am here and have many contacts here, and have my finger on the pulse of Fort Bliss. No I dont care to argue, and no you did not touch a nerve.. I just dont think you have a clue what your talking about when it comes to Fort Bliss and El Paso.
Yes we are well aware of who and what is coming to Fort Bliss and from where.. we have discussed many times before in the many threads below. We are also getting more than the 1st armored here.
I have also stated on here that Fort Bliss with WSMR is one of, if not the largest training facility in the US army, heck any military except the navy who has the worlds oceans to train in.
You make many valid points.. many I agree with.
Where is Fort Stewert? I think I alluded to it in my reply... with out naming any post.. I also said something about California, maybe you missed it. Tank warfare center? never mind.
Anyways.. No I also said that Fort Bliss does not have to worry, the funds have already been allucated, spent.. the state has also already given many funds to El Paso.. So I dont know what were arguing about, maybe its what Barney said, and how it can cause some confusion with what is and what maybe?
property taxes in el paso are quite high, even when compared to other cities in texas. there is little industry in el paso, and property taxes are one of the few ways of building revenue.
Compared to what cities? Laredo? Odessa? El Paso property taxes aren't high. I would love to change tax rates with you guys.
i can only imagine your taxes if you think el paso's property taxes were low. last year we paid over $10000! we moved to missouri, bought a house that was $50000 more than the one in el paso and pay $5000. even with now paying state income tax, that is much, much lower.
i can only imagine your taxes if you think el paso's property taxes were low. last year we paid over $10000! we moved to missouri, bought a house that was $50000 more than the one in el paso and pay $5000. even with now paying state income tax, that is much, much lower.
What's your tax rate? Saying you paid 10k means nothing. You could have a 10 million dollar home and that would be cheap. I paid around 140k for my home and pay 482/month for property taxes.
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