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I've lived in El Paso for some time but I've lived in other places too. El Paso was a much better place when it had better ratios of people but in recent years there's been an "American flight" -- not just whites but hispanics leaving. There have always been Spanish speakers in this city but they did tend to quietly assimilate in the past but the balance was tilted in the other direction sometime back -- now it may tilt back with the base realignment and Americans being returned to this area.
It's balance -- El Paso has always been a different place but was friendlier in the past. Not as much road rage and rudeness that you see lately.
And that's how I know -- Guadalajara for example has a nice community of American ex-pats -- retirees mostly -- pretty much what you see in El Paso. You can find American bookstores there, American style restaurants, and you can hang around and hear English spoken.
You can also find a few American students in the universities -- but it's a Mexican city --- just like El Paso is. And the weather in Mexico is wonderful -- just like here. The poverty rates are very high -- but that doesn't mean everyone lives dirt poor.
The reason I asked is because El Paso has little in common with the Mexican cities I am familiar with. I have not been to Guadalajara. But I have spent time in Los Mochis, the D.F., Chihuahua. And I don't find much in common between El Paso and these cities.
No offense, Malamute, but I think it's very misleading to say that living in El Paso is like living in Mexico. Infrastructure, government services, protocols, taxes--all these are handled in a much different manner. I recently helped a relative with a real estate transaction in Juárez. It was like having to learn a whole new way of doing business.
I get the feeling that your speaking more from a cultural perspective. But even there I have to disagree. Again, I can't speak about Guadalajara (I've also heard that Monterrey is very "American") never having been there. But to say El Paso is like Mexico City (the one city that both our lists have in common) is just way off base.
Again, I mean no offense. But I'd like hear your thoughts on Juárez. Would you say that El Paso and Juárez are similar? Because when I walk across that bridge I feel very much like I'm entering a different country.
The reason I asked is because El Paso has little in common with the Mexican cities I am familiar with. I have not been to Guadalajara. But I have spent time in Los Mochis, the D.F., Chihuahua. And I don't find much in common between El Paso and these cities.
No offense, Malamute, but I think it's very misleading to say that living in El Paso is like living in Mexico. Infrastructure, government services, protocols, taxes--all these are handled in a much different manner. I recently helped a relative with a real estate transaction in Juárez. It was like having to learn a whole new way of doing business.
I get the feeling that your speaking more from a cultural perspective. But even there I have to disagree. Again, I can't speak about Guadalajara (I've also heard that Monterrey is very "American") never having been there. But to say El Paso is like Mexico City (the one city that both our lists have in common) is just way off base.
Again, I mean no offense. But I'd like hear your thoughts on Juárez. Would you say that El Paso and Juárez are similar? Because when I walk across that bridge I feel very much like I'm entering a different country.
-eplifestyle
To begin, In Mexico I don't know of any zoning ordinances of any kind. You will find a taco stand, next to a residence, next to a automechanic, next to mom & pop grocery store. You pretty much build whatever you want wherever you want. Very disorganized.
Okay -- for example -- the ruteros -- the little buses made from old vans -- you don't see those in the USA but in Mexico....and El Paso. The Mexican oompah music playing everywhere, Spanish spoken in the work place almost exclusively. Men pushing little carts of paletas down the street, taco stands, outside the grocery store someone shouting "ejidos calientitos", open markets with pirated cd's of Mexican groups.
It's not all bad -- and there are the pockets of American type neighborhoods --- but yes you're right -- there is an American system of mayor and city council -- and as far as I know you shouldn't try to bribe a cop.
Culturally this is a Mexican city -- I think it was better when it was a bit less so --- although I very much liked Guadalajara and other cities I've seen in Mexico. I think when people are coming here it's best if they know what they're in for --- some will enjoy it quite a bit, some will not fit in. I've seen both reactions often.
It can be a cultural shock for someone coming from a very American city to flip through the radio stations and find very little in English --- especially if they've never experienced it or walk into a convenience store and have their change counted out in Spanish. Or go to Walmart and all the announcements are done in Spanish.
"Would you say that El Paso and Juárez are similar?"
And yes -- walk around south El Paso for a bit. And even some of the more affluent neighborhoods of El Paso are mostly upper-class Mexicans -- old Juarez moved over.
It's layered actually. You can live as a Mexican in El Paso very easily -- never encountering much English, find plenty of clubs with ranchero, cumbia, norteno bands -- and not a single person from the USA -- and you'll find plenty of people from Durango, Zacatecas, Chihuahua -- but not a soul from Colorado, Ohio and so on. You have your charreadas, posadas, and misas all in Spanish.
But there is a more American layer too where you can hear American music -- I'm not sure how many of those places are left -- and sometimes it seems to me almost strange how the two can co-exist almost never touching. Some of that I like -- but it's all in the balance -- I think the balance is too much in one way -- it got out of balance about a decade ago and is one reason that so many of the American types are over 50 or 60.
Both of your last two points were very interesting and gave alot of good info. Thanks much for sharing your knowledgable perspectives.
While I have personally only visited EP extensively but never resided there, I think you are absolutely right especially in the aspect of if people are coming to El Paso expecting another Dallas, Austin, Chicago, New York, San Diego, St. Louis, etc., and hoping for that similar culture...they are going to be disappointed. Surely EP has a culture and flavor all of its own. And that can highly appeal to folks or highly be a major shock and hinderance to folks, depending on what they are looking for out of an area / expecting.
I feel that Albuquerque is a very polarizing place for people - people generally either really love it or really hate it. I think El Paso is even moreso that way.
I also think that's one reason military families generally do okay here. They're used to be from somewhere else -- and they've often had the experience of being stationed overseas.
For others where a move is more voluntary, it has to do with what you're looking for -- if you're looking for an academic area with a lot of lectures to attend --- then obviously El Paso would not work out. I've met Europeans and Americans who couldn't wait to leave El Paso for that reason.
Rock concerts would be another reason -- El Paso kind of fell off the map for many of the rock group tours, and country music, and Tejano music.
But if it's a warm sunny climate, dry heat with little humidity, and if you don't mind waking up almost every day and seeing the sun --- then this might just be the place if climate matters more than cultural things. Las Cruces is another possibility.
But if it's a warm sunny climate, dry heat with little humidity, and if you don't mind waking up almost every day and seeing the sun ---
Thats why i love the Southwest as its the Sun that i thrive on. Thats why tons of people young families and retirees are flocking to Albuquerque, Tucson, Phoenix and Las Cruces/El Paso beacause of the warm winters and sunshine galore and not because of the thriving economies like back on the East Coast.
Hearing ''EnjoyEP'' talk about icy winters for 9 months back in Wisconsin or the High Humidity when i lived in Florida can force peoples to move. I love Florida with its beautifal beaches and Booming economy and could even see my self moving back there someday BUT the Humidity was awful for 9 months out of the year as you sweat 24 hours a day and sweat drips off you constantly and the bugs/spiders would constantly crawl across the carpet or on the walls and you don't see the Sun for days or weeks as its constantly cloudy and drizzles (sunshine state??) so for now i'm enjoying the dry warm and Sunny climate of the SouthWest even with the Border problems and all.
I fault the U.S. government and not Texas or New Mexico or others states because of the ''Mexicanization of the Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California Borders. By the way read the Tucson Newspaper and back issues as you'll see the new law in Arizona where they are arresting the Business owners (sun drywall and stucco co) for hiring undocumented workers. They should have done this a long time ago.
Go Andress High and NorthEast EP !!
Last edited by Six Foot Three; 04-01-2007 at 08:06 AM..
I also think that's one reason military families generally do okay here. They're used to be from somewhere else -- and they've often had the experience of being stationed overseas.
For others where a move is more voluntary, it has to do with what you're looking for -- if you're looking for an academic area with a lot of lectures to attend --- then obviously El Paso would not work out. I've met Europeans and Americans who couldn't wait to leave El Paso for that reason.
Rock concerts would be another reason -- El Paso kind of fell off the map for many of the rock group tours, and country music, and Tejano music.
But if it's a warm sunny climate, dry heat with little humidity, and if you don't mind waking up almost every day and seeing the sun --- then this might just be the place if climate matters more than cultural things. Las Cruces is another possibility.
Agreed completely.
And that is one of the points I have been trying to contend (perhaps not as articulately) in some of the other EP threads. I think one of the "disgruntled" groups of El Pasoans seems to be - at least from what others are saying - either young, college/grad school grads (presumably single still and looking in life for big bucks, more academia, a more - what they might think of as "refined" culture, and to advance up a corporate totem pole)...this is really broad generalizing, I know, but the type folks who might want to live in NYC, San Fransisco, or Seattle.
And if that is what they are looking for out of life or an area to live their life in, yep, El Paso probably wouldn't come close to fitting the bill. I love El Paso as much as anyone I think, and I even describe it in conversation as "rough around the edges"...but to me, that is endearing, to others, it is a scourge.
Yeah, you make a good point about the lack of rock / music big-name concerts (although I did see Elton John and the Rolling Stones both recently played EP), high lectures, etc. I would presume one could add things like a huge art community, theater, professional big-league sports, "urban" nightclubs and bars, etc. But again...it is a matter of a life situation and one's perspective in it.
To my wife and I (and perhaps others in our positions), we have two kids under-2. Frankly, we can barely leave our backyard much less go to concerts, NFL / NBA games, etc. We could really care less about attending lectures (we left those behind in grad school), art galleries, etc. While I consider myself a fairly successful professional, but care more about being happy in a job and at least comfortable financially for my family, rather than adding 0's to my paycheck and climbing a corporate ladder. But...
Things like sunshine and warm weather to allow our kids to play outside (and us to "get away" for an hour or two running, walking, biking, etc., outside), a relatively safe community, and a community where housing is affordable (rather than trying to all be cramped up in a tight little house or apt.) is important.
Also...while the culture of El Paso seems to be regarded by many as a "detriment" to living there, to a guy that grew up in one of those "hip, urban" bigger northern cities in the midwest and is all too familar with Chicago, the Twin Cities, etc. - and I would imagine that there are least some others out there like this - the unique multi-cultural aspect (American and Mexican) is just sort of neat with EP. Some will lampoon that attitude. While that is again just a matter of opinion, I contend that so many major cities in America now have all blended together in terms of cookie-cutter blandness...the same chains, chain restaurants, skyscrapers, culture, "look", "feel", etc. El Paso on the other hand...whether you love it or hate it...it surely different than most other cities in the U.S.; the same can't be said for so many other big U.S. cities.
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