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So it is very hard to get a job only speaking English in EP yet at the same time it is impossible to graduate from UTEP without that ability.
This is so ironic and may go a long way in explaining why most of the high paying, hi-tech/professional jobs are going to cities in East Texas where this is not the case. As a matter of fact if you look at per capita incomes in Texas metropolitan areas you will find a correlation between the predominantly Spanish-speaking areas and low incomes versus high incomes in the predominantly English-speaking metro areas:
So it is very hard to get a job only speaking English in EP yet at the same time it is impossible to graduate from UTEP without that ability.
This is so ironic and may go a long way in explaining why most of the high paying, hi-tech/professional jobs are going to cities in East Texas where this is not the case. As a matter of fact if you look at per capita incomes in Texas metropolitan areas you will find a correlation between the predominantly Spanish-speaking areas and low incomes versus high incomes in the predominantly English-speaking metro areas:
First thing I learned in my stats class - correlation does not equal causation. There are several low income cities that speak predominately English but like El Paso, relied heavily on a manufacturing sector that went bust - I'm thinking of rust belt cities but there are probably others. And much like these cities, El Paso is caught in a cycle of poverty where lack of jobs means leads to brain drain and the city becomes unattracrive for employers.
As for UTEP graduates and language - the engineering dept is filled with Mexican nationals who graduate just fine.
First thing I learned in my stats class - correlation does not equal causation. There are several low income cities that speak predominately English but like El Paso, relied heavily on a manufacturing sector that went bust - I'm thinking of rust belt cities but there are probably others. And much like these cities, El Paso is caught in a cycle of poverty where lack of jobs means leads to brain drain and the city becomes unattracrive for employers.
As for UTEP graduates and language - the engineering dept is filled with Mexican nationals who graduate just fine.
In the real world there is very rarely 100% causation which is why we look at degrees of correlation. You can always find exceptions to the overriding trend if you only look at specific niches but in doing so you are missing out on the big picture.
Yes and Pittsburgh also relied extensively on a manufacturing industry that also went bust and guess what, they reinvented themselves and are now one of the top ranked cities in the world in regards to Quality of Life measures. The brain drain is often a symptom of bad leadership from the elected officials and lack of entrepreneurial spirit from the private sector. Then you have to ask if they are leaving El Paso why are they leaving and where are they going where the environment might provide better opportunities.
So the Mexican Nationals who graduated did so without taking exams or listening to instruction in English? Did they separate them out from the engineers who did not speak Spanish? If so that is a pretty inefficient way to run a university. That ain't gonna happen even in this liberal bastion of the state capital, and I'm quite glad.
I'm not sure how economic reinvention in pittsburgh strengthens your claim. Please explain how language plays a role. You did however bring up a good point in regard to economic rejuvenation - Indianapolis did a similar thing when they turned to the medical/pharmaceutical industry. Both of these cities were cornerstones of their respective states - el paso is the red headed step child outside the Texas triangle.
In regard to Mexican nationals in the utep engineering dept - I am going to be as tactful as possible but you are starting to sound like a bigot and need to take political assumptions out of your expectations of their course work. I never stated that they graduated without english. Engineering like science and math departments are commonly stocked with foreign nationals from other parts of the world including Asia, the middle east, central, and south America. These disciplines provide good pay and ample job opportunities for those looking to establish themselves here. I personally commens them for being both bilingual and highly skilled. Though I married a Mexican national I never picked up the language - I plan to teach my children both of the skills these engineers have already aquired so they can be more competitive in the job market.
I'm not sure how economic reinvention in pittsburgh strengthens your claim. Please explain how language plays a role. You did however bring up a good point in regard to economic rejuvenation - Indianapolis did a similar thing when they turned to the medical/pharmaceutical industry. Both of these cities were cornerstones of their respective states - el paso is the red headed step child outside the Texas triangle.
In regard to Mexican nationals in the utep engineering dept - I am going to be as tactful as possible but you are starting to sound like a bigot and need to take political assumptions out of your expectations of their course work. I never stated that they graduated without english. Engineering like science and math departments are commonly stocked with foreign nationals from other parts of the world including Asia, the middle east, central, and south America. These disciplines provide good pay and ample job opportunities for those looking to establish themselves here. I personally commens them for being both bilingual and highly skilled. Though I married a Mexican national I never picked up the language - I plan to teach my children both of the skills these engineers have already aquired so they can be more competitive in the job market.
Forget about nationality since that wasn't what I was illustrating and also not the topic of this thread. My point is you cannot get a higher ed degree even in El Paso without knowing English so those who refuse to learn it are putting themselves at an economic disadvantage.
You tried to say that changes in the overall economy led to stagnation in EP while I made a counterpoint that cities like Pittsburgh had the same post-industrialization challenges but yet found solutions that allowed the middle class to prosper.
In the real world there is very rarely 100% causation which is why we look at degrees of correlation. You can always find exceptions to the overriding trend if you only look at specific niches but in doing so you are missing out on the big picture.
Yes and Pittsburgh also relied extensively on a manufacturing industry that also went bust and guess what, they reinvented themselves and are now one of the top ranked cities in the world in regards to Quality of Life measures. The brain drain is often a symptom of bad leadership from the elected officials and lack of entrepreneurial spirit from the private sector. Then you have to ask if they are leaving El Paso why are they leaving and where are they going where the environment might provide better opportunities.
So the Mexican Nationals who graduated did so without taking exams or listening to instruction in English? Did they separate them out from the engineers who did not speak Spanish? If so that is a pretty inefficient way to run a university. That ain't gonna happen even in this liberal bastion of the state capital, and I'm quite glad.
What's interesting and kind of sad is that often you meet people who went to school in Juarez who are more proficient in English as far as literacy than those who attended school here. At least at one time, I think some of the schools in Juarez were quite good but also the people with money would send their kids to private schools in El Paso, money was never an object.
Forget about nationality since that wasn't what I was illustrating and also not the topic of this thread. My point is you cannot get a higher ed degree even in El Paso without knowing English so those who refuse to learn it are putting themselves at an economic disadvantage.
You tried to say that changes in the overall economy led to stagnation in EP while I made a counterpoint that cities like Pittsburgh had the same post-industrialization challenges but yet found solutions that allowed the middle class to prosper.
The original argument was that those who refuse to learn English don't graduate college and don't get a high paying job. You went on to say that is why jobs are going to east Texas. I replied by analogy to rust belt cities. Your response was to look the turn around of Pittsburgh - ok great how does Pittsburgh relate to el paso residents refusing to learn English (your assumption not mine)? If you would like to argue the finer points of why el paso is stagnant - I'm probably your guy because I took my masters degree and left for Portland - but I'm sorry language is not the cause here.
The original argument was that those who refuse to learn English don't graduate college and don't get a high paying job. You went on to say that is why jobs are going to east Texas. I replied by analogy to rust belt cities. Your response was to look the turn around of Pittsburgh - ok great how does Pittsburgh relate to el paso residents refusing to learn English (your assumption not mine)? If you would like to argue the finer points of why el paso is stagnant - I'm probably your guy because I took my masters degree and left for Portland - but I'm sorry language is not the cause here.
You said: "like El Paso, relied heavily on a manufacturing sector that went bust." My point is that while other rust belt cities may have went bust but others like Pittsburgh went on to other industries and are now quite successful unlike El Paso. Per capita incomes in Pittsburgh are $38k and in El Paso they are $31k.
Regarding language companies will avoid cities like El Paso if they populace does not have the job skills they require. By not learning English a huge chunk of the population is relegating themselves to at best a HS degree therefore they will not be eligible for these hi-tech/professional jobs.
there is a law about hiring ILLEGals and they probably are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caltep
No...this preferred qualification can be put on any job description anywhere when one of the aspects of the position is working with a particular population that speaks another language or may require you to travel to another country where that is the primary language. If a company is looking for someone to work in their Beijing location, it would be feasible to say Preferred Qualification: Bilingual English/Mandarin or Cantonese. This covers both sides of the fence...those who speak a Chinese dialect first but also speaks English and vice versa.
I can admit the Spanish first default can be bothersome for nonspeakers. Especially when trying to fit in within the work social context. You are left out of 70% of what is being said or joked about.
Walmart needs to be STOPPED! In fact, every state needs to crack down on ALL businesses concerning hiring illegals and stop worrying about hurting anyone's feeling when requesting ID's in order to find out if someone is an illegal because it's a crime to be an ILLEGAL in the first place. That's like worrying about hurting a drug dealer or pedefile's feelings by asking him or her for ID or asking any questions. Who cares what color their skin is? The fact is that they're simply criminals because they are ILLEGALS and they've probably already committed or are committing crimes anyway. If they have someone else's social security card and using it as their ID, that is another crime they're committing, stealing someones identity. Before you say what else are they supposed to do or that's okay...How would you like to have your identity stolen which is exactly what millions of these ILLEGALS do to millions tax paying American citizens and STEALING from our social security sys. which you know is running out. Just Think about that for a minute and think about all the other benefits they're stealing from our system every day, ROBBING our system of OUR resources, NOT counting the millions of jobs they STEAL from LEGAL U.S. citizens. I'd like to end this note with...God bless the American born tax paying citizens of the United States and all the veterans of this country who have fought and are still fighting to protect and preserve our freedom! Let us NEVER forget their sacrifice to America! Also, remember, we once sent ALL Mexican ILLEGALS out of this country and back to Mexico. We CAN and MUST do it again for the good of the LEGAL tax paying citizens of the United States!
Walmart needs to be STOPPED! In fact, every state needs to crack down on ALL businesses concerning hiring illegals and stop worrying about hurting anyone's feeling when requesting ID's in order to find out if someone is an illegal because it's a crime to be an ILLEGAL in the first place. That's like worrying about hurting a drug dealer or pedefile's feelings by asking him or her for ID or asking any questions. Who cares what color their skin is? The fact is that they're simply criminals because they are ILLEGALS and they've probably already committed or are committing crimes anyway. If they have someone else's social security card and using it as their ID, that is another crime they're committing, stealing someones identity. Before you say what else are they supposed to do or that's okay...How would you like to have your identity stolen which is exactly what millions of these ILLEGALS do to millions tax paying American citizens and STEALING from our social security sys. which you know is running out. Just Think about that for a minute and think about all the other benefits they're stealing from our system every day, ROBBING our system of OUR resources, NOT counting the millions of jobs they STEAL from LEGAL U.S. citizens. I'd like to end this note with...God bless the American born tax paying citizens of the United States and all the veterans of this country who have fought and are still fighting to protect and preserve our freedom! Let us NEVER forget their sacrifice to America! Also, remember, we once sent ALL Mexican ILLEGALS out of this country and back to Mexico. We CAN and MUST do it again for the good of the LEGAL tax paying citizens of the United States![/quote]
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there is a law about hiring ILLEGals and they probably are.
