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Old 06-10-2007, 04:48 PM
 
16 posts, read 64,773 times
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anyone know how easy it is for lawyers to make a living in el paso? Easy to find a job there? Lots of work for lawyers there?

Never lived in el paso, driven though a few times etc. Love the climate. Getting out of law school very soon and would like to move to el paso. Please advise....

BTW, I don't speak much spanish...


thanks in advance!
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:27 PM
 
66 posts, read 111,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryophan View Post
anyone know how easy it is for lawyers to make a living in el paso? Easy to find a job there? Lots of work for lawyers there?

Never lived in el paso, driven though a few times etc. Love the climate. Getting out of law school very soon and would like to move to el paso. Please advise....

BTW, I don't speak much spanish...


thanks in advance!

Honestly, the market here is very weak. I'm a lawyer and I am finalizing my move from El Paso to the DFW area because the job situation is horrible here. I had a couple of entities string me along for more than 9 months before I finally called it quits and started to plan my move- the only reason I am still here is that I am taking care of an ill relative.

First, El Paso is a poor region and the economy here does not sustain the higher paying attorney jobs, so the firms here pay less than in other major cities in Texas and the turnover at all the legal jobs here is horrendous. Also, with a poor economy, the higher end corporate law areas such as securities, mergers and acquistions, and intellectual property are not represented here at all. Basically, you have the normal public jobs- city attorney, county attorney, public defender, district attorney and some assorted other state and federal jobs- like Texas DPS (driver's license revocations) and some federal ones like general counsel work at Customs and Border Protection, etc... The law firms are dominated by personal injury, labor and employment, insurance defense, family law, and criminal work.

To breakdown the public places first.

City Attorney- they are advertising for someone with 5 years of experience right now. I knew people who worked there and there is a history of massive turmoil there whenever the city government changes hands. They do not usually hire people straight out of law school, and from everything that I have heard, it is not a very good place to work. Pay varies from $50K to $140K or so.

County Attorney- they have a very high turn over rate, especially in the juvenile prosecution section. They are currently advertising but they also do not like to hire new grads. The atmosphere there is very militant Chicano activisim and they usually want you to be fluent in Spanish. They also have a policy of wanting everyone to do community work, so you are required to go to events at night and on weekends, so the normal advantage of a 9-5 work schedule is out the window. They tend to have jobs open for months at a time-I believe one of their current openings has been up there for 3-4 months. Starting pay is $48K or so.

District Attorney- has the most number of lawyers in town, the best chance for getting hired right out of school. They pay $48K to start and require a 3 year commitment. They strung me along for 9 months, were very rude, and their lawyers are neither particularly competent nor ethical (I've personally seen and reported misconduct) I finally withdrew my app with them. They are a total crapshoot as to whether they have an opening at any given time- they usually don't advertise. I've have heard many, many people complain about the work atmosphere there.

Public defender- usually has openings, $48K to start, have to be fluent in Spanish, and I don't know anything else- I've never known anyone who works there.

CBP is advertising for a general counsel position, pay is pretty good- I believe mid $50K's, I know the people there and they like working there, pay increases up to around $100K after 3 years, great benefits, they don't usual hire new grads and their office space is a dump.

DPS is advertising for a trial lawyer for license revocations, pay sucks, $35K, and they have been advertising the same job every 2-3 months for the last 2 years.

That's about it for public.

Firms- Scott Hulse is the best large firm in town- 35 lawyers right now, starting pay is $63K, excellant benefits, 1850 billable hours. They do mostly insurance defense (PI, trucking, etc...) and labor and employment. They are one of the most stable places in town, except they just had 5 lawyers leave- 1 partner, 1 of counsel, and 3 associates (one of whom was the most senior). Some of them were my friends and I haven't gotten the story yet on what happened, but something is definitely up there to have that many people leaving at once. They will hire new grads, but they have also lowered their number of summer clerks from 6 to 4 and in the past few years I think only one summer clerk has actually accepted an offer there. So, something is up there. I believe that they are the only firm doing summer clerkships. Dirt- one of their newest hires is the son of a CEO of a company that was indicted recently by the feds for a coupon fraud scheme- I'm surprised they didn't dump him quickly.

Kemp Smith- the other large firm- 43 lawyers, they have nixed their summer clerkship program and say that they are no longer hiring new grads, only laterals with 2-3 experience- they are advertising for a L & E lawyer with 2-3 years experience. Historically, they have been the model of nepotism, hiring the sons and daughters of partners. They had an associate leave a couple of months ago after about a year of working there- his father was a former partner. They have a long history and there are perpetual rumors that they are always going under. They have a HUGE turnover, they have probably turned over half the firm in the last 5 years. Half of the smaller law firms in town were formed by people leaving in groups from there. I have heard numerous stories about how bad it is to work there- a few years ago, they had an associate revolt and 5 of them left for the DA's office. It is also telling that they can't even retain the sons of the partners for more than a year or two. The rumor is that they have had a couple of massive legal malpractice judgments against them. Starting pay is $63K, I have heard differing claims as to whether they have a billable hour requirement now- at one time it was 1850. I wouldn't work there.

Mounce Green- solid smaller firm, lots of municipal law, work for the school districts, the county hospital, and trucking. They pay roughly $60K the last I heard and no billable hours. They used to have a summer clerkship program- I don't know if they still do. In 2005 they hired 5 associates and 3 left within 6 months, all people not from El Paso. I have heard that they hired one of the partners from Scott Hulse, but I don't know for sure. The partners have been there for a while, but they have gone through quite a few associates.

Ray Valdez- they are a solid firm but a large number of partners left the firm in the last 6 months, they very rarely hire associates and I don't know their pay.

Rincon Mounts- small firm of people who left Delgado Acosta about a year ago- 5 lawyers started the firm and 2 left already, but they just hired 2 associates. I believe they pay in the $60k's but they probably are not hiring and I doubt that the firm will last long.

Delgado, Acosta; Gordon Mott and some others- I don't know much about most of the other firms that are smaller, I don't think any of them hire very often.

Hicks and Lucky- I have heard VERY bad stuff about them- small medmal defense firm, they have lost all their associates within the past 3 years, some of whom did not even last 6 months. Their pay sucks- in the $50K's and they require 2000 billable hours, which is crazy in El Paso. I know several of the associates who have left recently and they had nothing good to say about the place. They just hired 2 new associates (to replace the 2 that just left) and the rumor is that one is already looking for another job.

Bramblett- small firm doing family law and criminal- they are advertising now for an associate- pay is $35K, which is bad even for El Paso.

Scherr & Legate- the typical ambulance chasing plantiff's firm- just hired some people, they have probably the most incompetant associates in town (which is saying a lot here). One of the partners' sales pitch to new associates is that they will work the most hours in town for the least pay.

And that about sums it up. I would honestly not recommend for anyone to come here for a legal job, none of the firms are doing that well, there are a lot of unhappy associates. Plus, the public jobs here are all paying less, in some cases much less than, the same jobs in other parts of Texas.

Also, the kicker is that some of the county officials are going to be indicted soon for corruption, part of which is where a lawyer here is allegedly fixing the court assignments and also some of the judges here. Allegedly, he is taking money from other lawyers to fix the assignments of the judges by messing with the computers in the District Clerk's office. So, when that blows up, the legal community here is going to be chaos. There have been rumors for years that some of the bigger firms have been paying off judges and I suspect that this will be blowing up within the next few weeks. So my advice is to hit the other big cities in Texas. Hope this helps.
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:45 PM
 
16 posts, read 64,773 times
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wow, thanks for the info. One reason why I am considering el paso is that the texas bar stats show that solo lawyers there make significantly more money than almost anywhere else in the state. The Rio Grande valley is the only other area where solos make more money. Not coincidentally, I believe, the Valley is the only other large metro area with more people in the general population per lawyer than El Paso.

I am an older law student and am much more interested in solo work than in working with a firm, and so therefore the areas of personal injury, labor and employment, insurance defense, family law, and criminal work, etc are what I am most interested in.
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Old 06-10-2007, 07:19 PM
 
66 posts, read 111,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kryophan View Post
wow, thanks for the info. One reason why I am considering el paso is that the texas bar stats show that solo lawyers there make significantly more money than almost anywhere else in the state. The Rio Grande valley is the only other area where solos make more money. Not coincidentally, I believe, the Valley is the only other large metro area with more people in the general population per lawyer than El Paso.

I am an older law student and am much more interested in solo work than in working with a firm, and so therefore the areas of personal injury, labor and employment, insurance defense, family law, and criminal work, etc are what I am most interested in.
I'm not sure if I believe the stats or not. Being a poor area, this is really a plaintiff's town, there are a lot of people here who are playing the sue any business that they can get some money from, so the majority of lawyers here are in small solo or 2 person offices doing a lot of contigency work.

What you are interested in covers a lot- insurance defense and plaintiff's PI work are diametrically opposed. Some of the plaintiff's firms here make quite a bit off of some very large jury verdicts (people here are anti-business so they tend to award large verdicts against businesses) but they are offset by the expenses of speculating on other contigency cases. There are a hell of a lot of lawyers here doing criminal and family law who are barely scraping by- if you have student loans, you'll be in trouble. Not knowing Spanish will kill you if you think that you can start a solo practice right out of law school here, not just because a newly graduated lawyer knows nothing about nuts and bolts practice, but you will not know anyone here and they won't know you. Most of the criminal lawyers here started at the DA's and a lot of family law people started at the County Attorney.

My advice is to check it out, but if you just move here without a job, it is likely that you will take at least 6 months to a year to find a job. Plus, if you want to start a solo right away, there are a number of start up costs and your malpractice insurance will be outrageous.

When are you graduating and taking the bar?
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Old 07-12-2007, 07:18 PM
 
66 posts, read 111,846 times
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FYI to anyone who actually cares about this- Delgado Acosta just went under as a law firm- it split up and the lawyers have moved on to other firms. So, one less firm in town.
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Old 07-12-2007, 07:50 PM
 
262 posts, read 906,698 times
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Default Who is attorney Ray Valdez?

Someone mentioned attorney Ray Valdez. He does not exist.
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:22 PM
 
66 posts, read 111,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nix54 View Post
Someone mentioned attorney Ray Valdez. He does not exist.
Perhaps if you read it, you would see that is refers to a law firm- Ray, Valdez, McChristian & Jeans, P.C.
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Old 07-12-2007, 08:28 PM
 
262 posts, read 906,698 times
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"Ray Valdez- they are a solid firm but a large number of partners left the firm in the last 6 months, they very rarely hire associates and I don't know their pay. "

You figure.
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Old 07-13-2007, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Mo City, TX
1,728 posts, read 3,422,177 times
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There are too many attorneys as it is in my opinion. We need less lawyers and more people that actually contribute something to society.
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Old 07-19-2007, 12:22 AM
 
66 posts, read 111,846 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lipbalm View Post
There are too many attorneys as it is in my opinion. We need less lawyers and more people that actually contribute something to society.
Yeah, all those people who prosecute the criminals, do the child protective services hearings, provide legal services for poor people, etc... none of them are doing a thing for society.

But, something is up at Scott Hulse- Big Changes at Big Law Firm - Newspaper Tree El Paso more partners are leaving. Anyone looking to move here and work as a lawyer should be doing their homework on the employers here.
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