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Originally Posted by cyclone8570
Ok hear me out on this...
Their rhetoric points to them being on Paul's side of a lot of issues:
including smaller government, cutting spending, auditing the fed, lowering taxes, pro-life...list goes on and on...
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rhetoric = lies to win votes. look at their voting records. there is only one other republican even in the race that can claim to have a foot to stand on as far as lower taxes are concerned, and that is huntsman, who is just as big-government as the rest.
none of the rest of the issues have anyone that i see as particularly capable of or historically prone to champion.
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But whether or not they will fulfill these promises is anyone's guess. They might... or they might not (like W, who ended up being a huge neocon).
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if you think it is up in the air as to whether they will fight for those causes, you have a lot more faith in them than i do. but i don't buy it. i am pretty sure that you know as well as i do that everyone of them is pro-big government, and there is no way to maintain big government with lower taxes, more liberties, fewer government intrusions, etc. they are not compatible.
so, no. i don't think it is even remotely "up in the air" as to whether or not they rest of the republicans will end up fighting for traditional conservative values.
they won't. end of story.
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However, with Obama, you are guaranteed more spending, bigger government, more taxes, Keynesian economics. You are guaranteed the opposite of what Ron Paul stands for.
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as is the case with romney, perry, bachmann, and probably huntsman as well. they've already proven that in their previous political histories. what makes you think that they are going to change for the better now?
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It just depends on what you want... do you want a candidate (Obama) who guarantees the opposite of Ron Paul? Or do you want to take a chance (republican) with a candidate who may end up doing some of what Ron Paul wants?
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i do not want either. i want a candidate that can prove to me that they are more than the normal ass-kissing-to-get-their-own-asses-kissed movie-stars that have no intention of doing anything good for the public. most of these candidates just want fame and fortune––that's it.
people laugh at palin, but at least she's honest (in deed, if not in word) about what she values. the others swear up and down that they serve america, but their voting histories and the favors done for their corporate buddies tells a very different story. EDIT: to clarify, i am one of those that laughs at palin, but i don't suffer any confusion as to where her allegiances lie (the dollar signs in her eyes give it away...).
but that is all beside the point. you don't know why the liberals are voting for ron paul. you might have heard a few of them detail a couple of points, but that doesn't mean that you understand the rest of their thought processes or political ideologies, much less the thousands of them that you have heard nothing from.
that means that you can't really make any sort of judgment whatsoever as to whether they would be hypocritical to turn back and vote obama into a second term.
you are focusing on what it is about paul that
you support and understand: downsizing government and social interference or whatever. but there is a different perspective that you are ignorant to, as evidenced by your accusations. they might be voting for paul for different reasons entirely, even if those reasons go through the filter of wanting a smaller government.
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I am a huge Ron Paul supporter and really hope he gets the nomination this time. I've donated a lot to his campaign. But if he doesn't get the nod-- I'll take the "chance" (republican) over the "guarantee" (Obama)
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if you are a paul supporter, you must be one of those "conspiracy theorists" and internet celebrity fanboys that atxcio was accusing us all of being.
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Originally Posted by cyclone8570
I was talking about traditional republican values
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good to hear. i was worried for a moment that you meant otherwise. disregard that portion of my post then.
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Originally Posted by bmw335xi
Traditional Republican values no longer exist in the Republican Party. I guess they still push for low taxes, but they want a huge empire, so it discredits the entire way low taxes work. You can only have low taxes if you have a small government. Republicans want low taxes and a large international empire, which is just unrealistic and mathematically impossible.
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you said it better than i did.
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Originally Posted by cyclone8570
They may, or they may not. W campaigned on less interventionism in 2000... he ended up lying about this... but because of one bad apple I don't think we can paint with a large brush
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this is apparently one of the places where we are going to disagree. i don't see the republican party as tainted by one bad apple. i see it as corrupt, dishonest and ridiculous as the far left.
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We don't really know what we will get with Perry or Romney... but we are certain what we will get with Obama.
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i am confident in the big government, deeper debt, higher taxes, more intrusive "safety" measures and similar nonsense that we will get under current republican guidance.
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Originally Posted by Bulldawg82
Neither. I will never vote for either one of the big parties, unless Ron Paul wins the Republican nomination. I will vote Libertarian.
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Originally Posted by VTHokieFan
I will vote for Ron Paul.
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same here.
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