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Old 11-28-2011, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,700,706 times
Reputation: 12341

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthGAbound12 View Post
You don't think that our presence in certain parts of the world incites hatred against us? Perhaps saying "nations" was a poor choice of words, perhaps "inflaming groups of people and regions" would have been better.

I don't think it's too late to put his ideals in place, in fact I think the moment's just right. If we are supposed to be the "leaders of the free world" then it's time to start acting like it. Interfering in the internal mattes of other nations is not how we should go about it.
What I think is something you clearly didn't get. Yes, its not just our presence but the desire to shape global politics over decades is why much of the world hates us. You can't change that by adopting a course that would have prevented all that if it were implemented and sustained since the inception of this country. Now you MUST worry about chaos that YOU are responsible for. And that YOU is our country as a whole. Politics ain't about honesty. We don't live in an ideal world, complete with honest people, who are true and believe in humanity.

For the mess WE have created over decades, we have to reverse the course for sure, but responsibly. It ain't a matter of flipping the switch.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,951,906 times
Reputation: 4207
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
What I think is something you clearly didn't get. Yes, its not just our presence but the desire to shape global politics over decades is why much of the world hates us. You can't change that by adopting a course that would have prevented all that if it were implemented and sustained since the inception of this country. Now you MUST worry about chaos that YOU are responsible for. And that YOU is our country as a whole. Politics ain't about honesty. We don't live in an ideal world, complete with honest people, who are true and believe in humanity.

For the mess WE have created over decades, we have to reverse the course for sure, but responsibly. It ain't a matter of flipping the switch.
While Ron Paul talks about "marching out of Iraq and Afghanistan" right away I don't think he'd pull all of our troops back from the entire globe right away. Like everything else he proposes, I think he realizes we need to phase things out. I think things would go slower than his detractors realize. He's the only candidate, aside from Huntsman to an extent, who talks about reshaping our foreign policy and who is serious about it.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,700,706 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthGAbound12 View Post
While Ron Paul talks about "marching out of Iraq and Afghanistan" right away I don't think he'd pull all of our troops back from the entire globe right away. Like everything else he proposes, I think he realizes we need to phase things out. I think things would go slower than his detractors realize. He's the only candidate, aside from Huntsman to an extent, who talks about reshaping our foreign policy and who is serious about it.
I want to see him talk about it in detail. When you do, let me know.
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Old 11-28-2011, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,951,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
I want to see him talk about it in detail. When you do, let me know.
Fair enough. I can't say enough how much I appreciate people who are willing to discuss issues intelligently and fairly. We don't agree but I can respect your position.
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Old 11-28-2011, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,864 posts, read 4,951,906 times
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Ron Paul on Defense - YouTube

I don't see how anyone could disagree with that response. Ron Paul is not a pacifist, he simply believes in the rule of law and following the Constitution. He won't hesitate to defend America, he just wants to make sure it's done Constitutionally and actually defends our interests. He doesn't want to put our boys in harm's way for dubious reasons.
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Old 11-28-2011, 08:32 PM
 
730 posts, read 823,320 times
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"Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will her heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the will-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vidicator only of her own. She will commend the general cause by the countenance of her voice, and the benignant sympathy of her example. She well knows that by once enlisting under other banners than her own, were they even the banners of foreign independence, she would involve herself beyond the power of extrication, in all the wars of interest and intrigue, of indivdual avarice, envy, and ambition, which assume the colors and usurp the standard of freedom. The fundamental maxims of her policy would insensibly change from liberty to force... She might become the dicatress of the world. She would be no longer the ruler of her own spirit..."

John Quincy Adams
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:04 PM
 
458 posts, read 773,529 times
Reputation: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost View Post
What I think is something you clearly didn't get. Yes, its not just our presence but the desire to shape global politics over decades is why much of the world hates us. You can't change that by adopting a course that would have prevented all that if it were implemented and sustained since the inception of this country. Now you MUST worry about chaos that YOU are responsible for. And that YOU is our country as a whole. Politics ain't about honesty. We don't live in an ideal world, complete with honest people, who are true and believe in humanity.

For the mess WE have created over decades, we have to reverse the course for sure, but responsibly. It ain't a matter of flipping the switch.
The problem is we slowly reverse course until the next administration or world events causes us to reverse course right back to where we were. More or less how things have been since WWII. Reagan build things up, Clinton down a bit, GW Bush up and Obama down a bit. All the GOP candidates except Paul are looking at keeping things about the same.

Why do some people like Paul? One reason, he will flip that switch.

Bringing the troops back to our homeland will make it harder for future administrations to be tempted to intervene where we really don't belong. And it would bring a lot of goodwill, where we have very little in the world today.

I can't imagine that pulling the troops out of Japan, S. Korea, Germany or Italy will cause mass chaos to ensue. These are established democracies that are fully capable of taking care of themselves. And we still have 10,000 troops in Kuwait. Saddam is not going to invade them again. Lets get them out of there. These 5 places have about 150,000 troops stationed. Bring them back and guard out borders and ports. Plus the revenue. 150,000 troops spending say $1,500 a month overseas. Thats $225 million dollars a month leaving the country. Would be nice if that was spent here, with sales tax revenue, etc.

Lets flip that switch!

Last edited by Winkelman; 11-28-2011 at 09:19 PM..
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Old 11-29-2011, 08:22 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,922,758 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winkelman View Post
The problem is we slowly reverse course until the next administration or world events causes us to reverse course right back to where we were. More or less how things have been since WWII. Reagan build things up, Clinton down a bit, GW Bush up and Obama down a bit. All the GOP candidates except Paul are looking at keeping things about the same.

Why do some people like Paul? One reason, he will flip that switch.

Bringing the troops back to our homeland will make it harder for future administrations to be tempted to intervene where we really don't belong. And it would bring a lot of goodwill, where we have very little in the world today.

I can't imagine that pulling the troops out of Japan, S. Korea, Germany or Italy will cause mass chaos to ensue. These are established democracies that are fully capable of taking care of themselves. And we still have 10,000 troops in Kuwait. Saddam is not going to invade them again. Lets get them out of there. These 5 places have about 150,000 troops stationed. Bring them back and guard out borders and ports. Plus the revenue. 150,000 troops spending say $1,500 a month overseas. Thats $225 million dollars a month leaving the country. Would be nice if that was spent here, with sales tax revenue, etc.

Lets flip that switch!

YES!
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Old 11-29-2011, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Gone
25,231 posts, read 16,844,707 times
Reputation: 5932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winkelman View Post
The problem is we slowly reverse course until the next administration or world events causes us to reverse course right back to where we were. More or less how things have been since WWII. Reagan build things up, Clinton down a bit, GW Bush up and Obama down a bit. All the GOP candidates except Paul are looking at keeping things about the same.

Why do some people like Paul? One reason, he will flip that switch.

Bringing the troops back to our homeland will make it harder for future administrations to be tempted to intervene where we really don't belong. And it would bring a lot of goodwill, where we have very little in the world today.

I can't imagine that pulling the troops out of Japan, S. Korea, Germany or Italy will cause mass chaos to ensue. These are established democracies that are fully capable of taking care of themselves. And we still have 10,000 troops in Kuwait. Saddam is not going to invade them again. Lets get them out of there. These 5 places have about 150,000 troops stationed. Bring them back and guard out borders and ports. Plus the revenue. 150,000 troops spending say $1,500 a month overseas. Thats $225 million dollars a month leaving the country. Would be nice if that was spent here, with sales tax revenue, etc.

Lets flip that switch!
First off you are correct that he would make it more difficult to send troops abroad, that is because we will not have enough troops to send anywhere, downsizing the American Army, Navy and AirForce will weaken this nation to a point where we be will not be able to send enough troops to deal with issues that Must be dealt with, Afganistan is a good example.
Secondly, those roops overseas are not spending large amounts of money in those Nations they are stationed in, the majority of their money is still spent here. Then there is the issue of once they are back a large number of them will be laid off by your genius, meaning more people on unemployment and less money spent on the economy and fewer trained soliders to defend this nation. BAD IDEAS, no matter how much sugar coating is spread over them by saying they will be phased back so it will take a while for the damage to affect the nation, are still BAD IDEAS. Not to mention his ideas on Abortion, Taxes, the FED, EPA, and Education, just to mention a few of his other BAD IDEAS. Thankfully, Paul will Never be President, but go ahead enjoy your dreams while they last, most Americans know Pauls Dream would be a Nightmare for America and Reject him and his ideas
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Old 11-29-2011, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,700,706 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winkelman View Post
The problem is we slowly reverse course until the next administration or world events causes us to reverse course right back to where we were. More or less how things have been since WWII. Reagan build things up, Clinton down a bit, GW Bush up and Obama down a bit. All the GOP candidates except Paul are looking at keeping things about the same.

Why do some people like Paul? One reason, he will flip that switch.
He can't and won't. Just the fear that he might, has him as an also ran in the pack of GOP candidates. And even if he magically could, overruling the congress better than Obama could for his ideas, do you seriously believe the next one won't flip the switch back?

The key to solving these problems isn't talk, or even access to the switch, but addressing the corruption and corporate influence that plagues the congress. All I see with Ron Paul as the President is a record setting tenure of vetoes and overridden vetoes. Take Gitmo for example. What would Ron Paul do differently and get it closed than Obama?
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