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View Poll Results: Are You Better Off Than You Were Four Years Ago?
YES 50 52.08%
NO 46 47.92%
Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-04-2012, 12:41 PM
 
12,779 posts, read 7,188,710 times
Reputation: 4327

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimar View Post
So, apparently, you believe that there was both government and rule of law in the Stone Ages?
Fine, I may have said that in anger over the whole situation but it doesn't change the fact that the government does more getting in the way and limiting of business than it does to help it at this point.

All this nonsense about the roads, internet, and infrastructure that was put in place decades ago....and in many cases hardly maintained at an acceptable level while taxes, spending, and debt continue to increase is not a good "you didn't build that" argument at all. We all have the same exact benefits that can be gained from our government, so to imply that somehow people are useless and didn't earn the fruits of their labor DESPITE the times when government gets in the way are just insulting. The government needs to the the bare bones basics...like keep the rule of law, which it hardly does when you look consider things like Madoff, Corzine, and the like.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:48 PM
 
1,176 posts, read 1,722,682 times
Reputation: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
You complain that interest rates are low and if interest rates were high, you would complain that they were high.
I don't think anyone would wish for the Jimmy Carter interest rates, but it would be nice if interest rates at least kept up with inflation. Low interest rates particularly hurt seniors who can not afford to risk their savings, but instead are losing money to inflation. How could any senior say that they are better off than they were 4 years ago? Four years ago my "safe" money was drawing 5-6%. And to the person who said their 401k took a 50% hit, but had now doubled. That puts you back at square one, not better off. Yes, you are correct my 401k is back even, but when you add in the 40% drop in home value, I defy you to say that you are better off.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Pluto's Home Town
9,986 posts, read 12,787,170 times
Reputation: 5676
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt800 View Post
I've posted this proof about 40 times before, but I do understand that Libs have problems with facts so I'll be kind enough to post it again:

DWYER: Bush tax cuts boosted federal revenue - Washington Times
And the housing bubble had nothing to do with this?

Oh, and it was all sustainable, right? That huge recession was clearly Obama's doing, I suppose?

What a crock of mularky.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Montgomery Village
4,112 posts, read 4,180,499 times
Reputation: 1704
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&M_Indie_08 View Post
Yeah, of course it is better for you..... you are busy helping design extra houses for the Wall St crooks near you that Obama refused to go after

The rest of the country apparently disagrees with you regarding the question of if they are better now though......
Apparently, if you are not doing better I guess no one can be doing better.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:09 PM
 
1,698 posts, read 1,680,958 times
Reputation: 766
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
Fine, I may have said that in anger over the whole situation but it doesn't change the fact that the government does more getting in the way and limiting of business than it does to help it at this point.

All this nonsense about the roads, internet, and infrastructure that was put in place decades ago....and in many cases hardly maintained at an acceptable level while taxes, spending, and debt continue to increase is not a good "you didn't build that" argument at all. We all have the same exact benefits that can be gained from our government, so to imply that somehow people are useless and didn't earn the fruits of their labor DESPITE the times when government gets in the way are just insulting. The government needs to the the bare bones basics...like keep the rule of law, which it hardly does when you look consider things like Madoff, Corzine, and the like.
I think it is so sad that you take what we have so for granted. Have you ever lived in a truly dysfunctional country? I have. It might seem so darn basic to have reasonable roads and sidewalks, but there are actually places in this world where it can't be managed. What if every storefront had to build their own sidewalk, but instead of being uniform, each store placed the sidewalk at a different height, used different materials, built the sidewalk at a different width, put planters in different locations, had no ramps for the disabled, and did not maintain their sidewalk so in front of certain stores it eventually crumbled? There are places like this. Have you ever had to apply for a driver's license or passport, but had to include a $20 bribe with your papers? Have you ever been to a country where water from poor neighborhoods was diverted to a golf course's sprinklers, so that the poor only got 2 or 3 hours of water per day? Have you been to a place where millions of poor children live on the street, selling flowers and tissues in the hot sun all day?

NOTHING comes easy, nothing. It took a lot of people, making a herculean effort, so that you can sit in your air-conditioned house typing away at the computer your complaints about how the infrastructure of this country was "put in place decades ago" and imagining insults against entrepreneurs that never even happened. Everything you have is SO VALUABLE, and you feel like it is nothing. I would hate to be like that.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:10 PM
 
3,347 posts, read 2,887,390 times
Reputation: 1719
Quote:
Originally Posted by btsilver View Post
Apparently, if you are not doing better I guess no one can be doing better.
So basically you have nothing..... gotcha

Apparently, when a partisan seess his party get called out and can't respond..... he/she deflects
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,790 posts, read 12,892,471 times
Reputation: 5651
"Are Americans Better Off Today Than They Were Four Years Ago?" The Question That Exposes Incompetent Reporters
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:24 PM
 
12,779 posts, read 7,188,710 times
Reputation: 4327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimar View Post
I think it is so sad that you take what we have so for granted. Have you ever lived in a truly dysfunctional country? I have. It might seem so darn basic to have reasonable roads and sidewalks, but there are actually places in this world where it can't be managed. What if every storefront had to build their own sidewalk, but instead of being uniform, each store placed the sidewalk at a different height, used different materials, built the sidewalk at a different width, put planters in different locations, had no ramps for the disabled, and did not maintain their sidewalk so in front of certain stores it eventually crumbled? There are places like this. Have you ever had to apply for a driver's license or passport, but had to include a $20 bribe with your papers? Have you ever been to a country where water from poor neighborhoods was diverted to a golf course's sprinklers, so that the poor only got 2 or 3 hours of water per day? Have you been to a place where millions of poor children live on the street, selling flowers and tissues in the hot sun all day?

NOTHING comes easy, nothing. It took a lot of people, making a herculean effort, so that you can sit in your air-conditioned house typing away at the computer your complaints about how the infrastructure of this country was "put in place decades ago" and imagining insults against entrepreneurs that never even happened. Everything you have is SO VALUABLE, and you feel like it is nothing. I would hate to be like that.
I've seen and am aware of pretty sh!tty things, thanks.

Bottom line, like I said...I hate my hard work being minimized. In addition to that, I hate the fact that somehow the government feels entitled to close to 1/3 of my income so they can run the largest deficit in the history of the world, and meanwhile things like Madoff, Corzine, Sarbanes–Oxley, picking of winners like Ethenol, Solyndra, General Motors all continue to be a huge waste of all of our tax money. Not only is it a waste of money, but it is also counter intuitive and it hurts growth and innovation.

Instead of telling me how lucky I am that they are there for me, I want a government that understand how lucky THEY are that we give them the privilege of being there FOR US. I want a government that knows how to stick to their core competencies of national security, and some of the infrastructure things you pointed out. Our current policies are a classic example of trying to be everything to everyone, and the result is that we are not doing anything all that well. Look at education, the "saftey nets" that we have in place, health care, and the housing market....they are all a mess because the government just doesn't have the capacity, knowledge, or business trying to do these things.

I certainly dont take for granted the things we have...the basics, however I do demand that the money being taken from me be used to make us exceptional. Instead our taxes seem to be viewed as an entitlement to our elected officials for their pet projects that they can use to woo strategic blocks of voters.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:51 PM
 
1,698 posts, read 1,680,958 times
Reputation: 766
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
I've seen and am aware of pretty sh!tty things, thanks.

Bottom line, like I said...I hate my hard work being minimized. In addition to that, I hate the fact that somehow the government feels entitled to close to 1/3 of my income so they can run the largest deficit in the history of the world, and meanwhile things like Madoff, Corzine, Sarbanes–Oxley, picking of winners like Ethenol, Solyndra, General Motors all continue to be a huge waste of all of our tax money. Not only is it a waste of money, but it is also counter intuitive and it hurts growth and innovation.

Instead of telling me how lucky I am that they are there for me, I want a government that understand how lucky THEY are that we give them the privilege of being there FOR US. I want a government that knows how to stick to their core competencies of national security, and some of the infrastructure things you pointed out. Our current policies are a classic example of trying to be everything to everyone, and the result is that we are not doing anything all that well. Look at education, the "saftey nets" that we have in place, health care, and the housing market....they are all a mess because the government just doesn't have the capacity, knowledge, or business trying to do these things.

I certainly dont take for granted the things we have...the basics, however I do demand that the money being taken from me be used to make us exceptional. Instead our taxes seem to be viewed as an entitlement to our elected officials for their pet projects that they can use to woo strategic blocks of voters.
1. No one minimized your hard work, Mr. "I can make money in the Stone Age." You'd probably need thicker skin to live in the Stone Age as well. You sound like you just want someone who tells you what you want to hear, and you're not being specific about what these terribly offensive statements are, so I don't know what you're thinking. I don't actually care much about the posturing on either side, because that's what it is, posturing. If it doesn't impress you, don't pay attention to it. I wonder how bothered you were when 4 years ago Sarah Palin was going on and on about "real" Americans as if somehow the rest of us are "fake" Americans.

2. Be careful what you wish for. You think suddenly things will magically correct themselves if the government backs off? Do you think a minimalist government sounds bad to me? If I thought it would be realistic, yeah, I think keeping government out of everything would be fine. What happens in other countries when the government backs off of social services? In Egypt, the government went from quasi-socialist to "pro-business" and what happened? The Muslim Brotherhood started providing the poor with the things the government stopped providing, like additional food, healthcare, and education. And we know what happened after that. THEY BECAME the government.

3. Every successful country in the world has government involvement in healthcare and education. That IS a basic. What laissez-faire country are you thinking of that does nothing while their citizens innovate out in the wilderness on their own (hint: America is NOT one of them)? The Republican/Libertarian ideas on infrastructure and foreign policy, what little ideas they have, are terribly outdated and arguably dangerous.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:54 PM
 
79,660 posts, read 39,627,666 times
Reputation: 16474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead View Post
As for whether we are better off, let me put it this way.

You are jogging down the street and some drunk frat boys (Wall Street) run you down (they didn't mean to, honest!) in their PowerStroke 350 on their way back from a 20 kegger. A guy finds you by the road and runs you to the hospital. The doctor sees you, with broken back, legs, ribs, and punctured spleen,etc. He tends to you, stabilizes you, puts you together with a few pounds of metal and pins. After a few months of bed rest, you take your first walk. It hurts like hell. You keep at it. You've lost a lot of muscle and all. Slowly, slowly you begin to gain strength. Eventually, you are able to hobble a bit, then even to jog again, though with a bit of a shuffling gate.

On one of your slow, but hard-earned runs, you see a familiar truck coming up in the opposite lane. A frat boy hangs out the window, smiles, and calls out, "Ya know, you ain't running like you used to, that Doctor must have been a real quack!" To howls of laughter and high fives from the boys, and the truck roars off.
Those frat boys are Obama, Geithner and Bernanke.
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