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Old 09-20-2012, 09:04 AM
 
15,047 posts, read 8,882,143 times
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This is what true desecration of the flag looks like:

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Old 09-20-2012, 09:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Why? Doesn't freedom of speech protect logo designs? We've seen the flag corrupted into so many different ways in the name of patriotism, it's got to be hard coming up with something original.

Where did freedom of speech come into this? I am not infringing on liberty by saying that it is poor taste and omits the basic symbolism.

Now If I were calling for legislation to ban or restrict people from doing such, well... you might have a case, but I am not.

Freedom of speech does not protect you from differing opinions or the consequences of social choice concerning it.

For the record, I don't believe in using the flag in all the ways people defame it for. /shrug
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:06 AM
 
Location: San Diego
990 posts, read 940,164 times
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Oops. SO I guess now all these trolls will actually admit that this is merely a tactic done by all politicians and political groups, right?





You people really have to reach for some of your nonsense "outrage" over Obama. It's really amazing. I'd have a lot more respect for you people if you had the cojones to admit it instead of clinging to these nonsense "he's showing us that he's trying to take over America!" ideas.

The moderator edited my post and removed the images saying it was "off-topic" even though it was squarely on topic.

Last edited by ThinkBeforeYouVote; 09-20-2012 at 09:45 AM.. Reason: NOT off topic!
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:07 AM
 
18,404 posts, read 19,042,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Lets see, it has stars and stripes (you could question the number of stars, but I think it is reasonable to say space is a limitation). It has their logo over the flag. Similar to the example I explained earlier, it isn't technically removing anything (the basis symbolism of the flag is retained).

The Obama one I can't see any stars at all. The removal of the stars is a major change in the significance of the symbolism. As I said, stars and stripes is how we often refer to it. Without the stars it is simply Obama symbol and the stripes. The symbol has no meaning of its original design which is significant to its purpose.
you seem to be nit picking. it is a logo done by an artist. do you have trouble with all art and t-shirts that don't show the flag in a traditional way?
Art News | Anton Kandinsky : Gems and Gemism | Art Knowledge News
how about one shaped like a heart?
Google Image Result for http://www.linentablecloth.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/american-flag-heart-clip-art.png
or one w/lady liberty
Google Image Result for http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2jf7k4mjIH8/TB96ntlZbhI/AAAAAAAACAs/ypCfX8-Ol7M/s1600/american-flag-liberty.jpg
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:07 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,960,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyJude514 View Post
This is what true desecration of the flag looks like:

Agreed, it is.

I think all of the American people have been using our system as a prostitute for their own gain. I think the majority of people out there have no concept or respect for liberty.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:08 AM
 
13,441 posts, read 9,968,878 times
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Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
I have a problem with that as well. I don't care who does it, it sets the wrong message and destroys the symbolism the flag represents.

Wait, one thing I did notice though... it does still contain the stars... so in basic symbolism, all is still there.
But neither of them are actual flags. In basic symbolism, they're both logos inspired by the flag .... but they aren't the flag.

If you have a problem with both then that's fine, and certainly your prerogative.

The fact that the GOP has an almost identical layout with their logo where the states should be makes this thread's outrage over Obama using it extraordinarily ridiculous, regardless..
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:09 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,960,751 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkBeforeYouVote View Post
Oops. SO I guess now all these trolls will actually admit that this is merely a tactic done by all politicians and political groups, right?



You people really have to reach for some of your nonsense "outrage" over Obama. It's really amazing. Why can't you people just admit that you don't like him because he's black and has a funny name? I'd have a lot more respect for you people if you had the cojones to admit it instead of clinging to these nonsense "he's showing us that he's trying to take over America!" ideas.

Basic symbolism is all there. Like I said, I have a problem with the omission or replacement of symbols in such. As you have noticed, both parties have done it.

As for your racist claim, grow up. You make yourself a racist by constantly bringing up that accusation. Get off race, we are Americans and people can actually disagree with another person without it being some stupid infantile argument of race.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:12 AM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,960,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
But neither of them are actual flags. In basic symbolism, they're both logos inspired by the flag .... but they aren't the flag.

If you have a problem with both then that's fine, and certainly your prerogative.

The fact that the GOP has an almost identical layout with their logo where the states should be makes this thread's outrage over Obama using it extraordinarily ridiculous, regardless..

I do have a problem with both. Without the basic components, what point is their meaning? It is the stars, stripes and colors that are key here. Now personally, I understand that it is difficult to impose the exact number of stripes and stars in every image, but if the key components are there, it is still symbolic.

Bring all of them in, we can be outraged by them all. The problem is, people are more outraged about their pet little partisan side and ignore the offense all sides are making. Then we wonder why we keep getting the short end of the stick? All of the politicians are taking people for a ride. They could care less about the people. We are all slaves to them, people just are too damn ignorant and partisan to see it.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:13 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,905,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Can you take a moment to listen to my position or are you just going to blather off in partisan fashion? Hell, I can't stand Romney, so don't even think you can imply I am being partisan here. My logic is sound.

The Romney image you should me contains the three basic components of the flags symbolism: Stars, Stripes, Colors.

The Obama image contains only stripes and the colors. Also, the Obama image is specifically attempting to look like a flag and the stars are replaced by the the Campaign logo. It does not have all the basic components to which signify the flag. Now if it were some random design I probably wouldn't have as much of an issue with it, though the basic components I mentioned are kind of key to the symbolism.

The point is though that the Obama image "replaces" a specific set of the symbolism while it still attempts to hold the form of the original symbol (ie the flag). It opens up the door for such gossip concerning it because as some have said, by removing the stars, it can be symbolized as a disrespect for the states which if you have been paying attention, Obama has had some major confrontations with concerning them.

Now you can say it wasn't intentional, I honestly have no idea if it was or if it was just some poorly thought out design where the artist didn't consider the implications of its symbolism, but it is a valid point and logical ground.

So please, stop acting partisan and put on that logic hat for a moment and recognize I have a legitimate argument here.
Come back a week from today and tell me how logical you are being.

Two political campaigns adapt the American flag to develop a promotional logo (a tradition that goes back to the earliest Presidential campaigns).

One puts its symbol across the stripes (an easier background to work with), and one puts its symbol in the corner, replacing the stars.

Replacing the stars, you argue, can by symbolized as disrespect for the states. Now, think. Is that a partisan argument? WHO is arguing that it's disrespect for the states? People who are over-the-top partisans against Obama. Sane people aren't arguing that.

Please, put on your logic hat for a moment. Because I'm no more an Obama fan than you are a Romney fan. And I'm not acting partisan when I point out that BOTH parties have corrupted the American flag and switched out basic elements, losing some of the symbolism, playing up other symbols. They've done it this year, they've done it during the last election, the one before that, and before that, and before that.

The criticism of Obama for designing a print that references the American flag is strictly partisan criticism. You can dress up the criticism with "logic" all you want, but the criticism itself is partisanship, because both parties design logos, literature, prints, buttons, t-shirts, coffee mugs, that reference the American flag to varying degrees. If you criticize one, and don't criticize the other, you are engaging in partisanship.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Vermont
11,761 posts, read 14,667,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
The military exists for the protection of the base symbolism of the flag, so removing components is poor in symbolism in my opinion.
No, the military exists for the protection of the United States and its people. If you really think the purpose of the military is to protect a symbol you are even more confused than I thought.
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