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So this pretty much confirms my view, Black voting patterns are rooted in events BEFORE the Southern Strategy. Eisenhower received a minority of Black votes. It also makes perfect sense for Blacks to vote for Democrats in 1964 since their candidate supported ending segregation. It makes perfect sense for Blacks to continue to reward the party moving forward. The Southern Strategy was a response in part to Blacks shifting allegiences. Frankly Southern Whites would have probably deserted the Dems with little prompting even without Nixon's strategy.
Actually, I said that Blacks STOPPED voting Republican in the 1960s because of LBJ and later on the Southern Strategy. Blacks STARTED voting Democrat because of FDR, and later Truman.
So what do you want society to do? Force Blacks to take school seriously? Learn math?
I say that there needs to be a more rigorous attention to the STEM department. Mathematics, Sciences, and Technology need to be emphasized alot more in schools these days. Also, low expectations need to be ended. More needs to be expected of ALL students, including Black students. I would say one of the reasons is that from Black students, not as much is expected. The expectation level needs to raised, and it needs to be raised from day on starting in kindergarten.
I say that there needs to be a more rigorous attention to the STEM department. Mathematics, Sciences, and Technology need to be emphasized alot more in schools these days. Also, low expectations need to be ended. More needs to be expected of ALL students, including Black students. I would say one of the reasons is that from Black students, not as much is expected. The expectation level needs to raised, and it needs to be raised from day on starting in kindergarten.
No disagreement here but again you can't force folks to study these courses. All you can do is introduce them and hope it sticks. I don't have the data in front of me but if I had to guess the most popular majors for Black students are probably Sociology, Mass Communications and Psychology.
As for low expectations, it's the community itself that is responsible for that. Doing well in school is denounced as,"acting white". I've just linked an article where the premier civil rights organization's response to Blacks not getting into selective schools because of their inability to pass a test, is to denounce the test and sue. No emphasis is put on actually working with Black students to actually pass the test. Until the community stops blaming racism for its inability to compete nothing much will change in the expectation department. In fact states have already reduced expectations for Black students as a result of NCLB. Nobody wants to lose their jobs because the Black community can't prepare their kids to learn adequetely.
It's a pretty big issue. A disparate result does not mean bias is occuring especially if entrance is based on an exam.
Don't know much about Chicago schools. Still the stats you cite don't really dispute what I'm saying when you consider 41% of the public school students are Black.
But Chicago has a higher percentage of black students enrolled in their selective high schools than NYC. That was my point. The black population in NYC is 28%. If they had 8-10% of their selective enrollment as black students, I would not think there was any bias.
One percent is VERY suspicious IMO. I would think even you would think that was suspicious even with your condemnation of the educational status of black youth. And your comments regarding the educational achievement of African and Carribbean students, who make up a large portion (especially Carribbeans) of NYC's black population. I personally don't know many black New Yorkers whose parents either both aren't Carribbean or one is Carribbean or from another country and to think their kids can't get into selective enrollment schools...that is just VERY suspicious for me and is reason enough to look into their enrollment practices at those schools. Especially because I know that they have a program for minority students in NYC that will give top middle schoolers access to prestigious boarding schools in the NE and I cannot remember the percentage offhand, but at least 10% of the middle schoolers qualify for this program and I am sure the boarding schools have stricter requirements versus the NYC academies. Plus boarding/prep schools have standardized test reqirements as well as I am currently looking into boarding/pre options for high school as well as selective enrollment academies for my 10 year old son. Never too soon to plan ahead
On city-data.com it states the black population of Chicago is 32.8% not 41 and a lot of black people have moved away from Chicago so it is probably lower than that now, some think it is around 30%. And I am being conservative in regards to the percent of black students in their selective enrollment high schools. I am pretty sure it is over 20% that are black but don't have my statistics in an easily reachable place right now. My family is considering moving to Chicago specifically because of the selective enrollment schools (other high school options in consideration if my son decides he doesn't want to go to a boarding school or I don't want him to, which would probably be more likely) for my son when he goes to high school so I have really done a lot of research into CPS and magnet/selective enrollment schools there and I am pretty sure that black students account for more than 20% of their enrollment in high school, which is a good percentage since most black students go to not all that great elementary/middle schools and wouldn't be prepared for the test to go to a selective enrollment high school. But 15-20% will just by nature IMO and for NYC which has such a large amount of black people to only have 1% go to selective enrollment high schools, that is very weird and suspicious.
There is a very prestigious school in IL called IMSA (Illinois Math and Science Academy) and even they have 8-10% black students and they are highly selective so 1% is just very suspicious to me.
No disagreement here but again you can't force folks to study these courses. All you can do is introduce them and hope it sticks. I don't have the data in front of me but if I had to guess the most popular majors for Black students are probably Sociology, Mass Communications and Psychology.
As for low expectations, it's the community itself that is responsible for that. Doing well in school is denounced as,"acting white". I've just linked an article where the premier civil rights organization's response to Blacks not getting into selective schools because of their inability to pass a test, is to denounce the test and sue. No emphasis is put on actually working with Black students to actually pass the test. Until the community stops blaming racism for its inability to compete nothing much will change in the expectation department. In fact states have already reduced expectations for Black students as a result of NCLB. Nobody wants to lose their jobs because the Black community can't prepare their kids to learn adequetely.
You can't force it, but you can introduce it early and often, and show Black children Black people who are making it in a knowledge-based economy.
The entire Black community does not denounce doing well in school. A certain segment of the Black community denounces it. What do Black people with means and a desire for a better life do? They flee. It's called voting with your feet.
Ask yourself this: Why isn't there an emphasis on getting students to pass the tests, and to actually do better in school? And it isn't just a segment of the Black community with low expectations. There are White people who don't expect alot from Blacks.
No disagreement here but again you can't force folks to study these courses. All you can do is introduce them and hope it sticks. I don't have the data in front of me but if I had to guess the most popular majors for Black students are probably Sociology, Mass Communications and Psychology.
As for low expectations, it's the community itself that is responsible for that. Doing well in school is denounced as,"acting white". I've just linked an article where the premier civil rights organization's response to Blacks not getting into selective schools because of their inability to pass a test, is to denounce the test and sue. No emphasis is put on actually working with Black students to actually pass the test. Until the community stops blaming racism for its inability to compete nothing much will change in the expectation department. In fact states have already reduced expectations for Black students as a result of NCLB. Nobody wants to lose their jobs because the Black community can't prepare their kids to learn adequetely.
I disagree in regards to STEM classes. You actually can force students to study them in K-12. Many new STEM academies are opening up and focusing on just that.
And I agree with green_mariner in regards to the low expectations from black people. I feel that is just your personal perception, but as someone who was a high achiever, I rarely got the "acting white" thing from black people. My son goes to a majority black school and he has never been lauded as "acting white" either. I think it is the lower class of people who speak like this. Also dumb teenagers or kids who just want to speak ill of someone and when they cannot think of a better insult, they will tell someone they "act white." I have heard that from more whites than blacks in my life.
I do think that black students do not get test prep like whites and Asians but I squarely put this as the responsibility of educators. They should provide information for test prep. I had to ask my own high school counselor about it when I was in school and I was a NHS (national honors society) student in high school with a GPA over 4.0 due to AP classes, which I also had to ask about myself. I wish I would have asked about scholarships to boarding/prep schools as they are out there as well and not as many black families know about this versus white/Asian and even international students, but I did not know about them. My mom was a high school drop out as was my dad and could not help me with a lot of things in regards to searching for scholarships, test prep, anything in regards to higher education or what schools look for, this was before the internet revolution though and I do feel more black parents are educated about these things but not all that many more. Many smart black students do not have parents that were college educated and they do not know how to navigate the educational system. I feel schools should be more proactive in steering smart black kids to AP or test prep help, including waivers for poor kids and this would open a lot of doors for smark black kids who don't have knowledgeable parents in regards to these subjects. It has been documented that black children are not referred to AP when they are eligible and are not given information about these programs that white or Asian and even Latino students are provided in higher numbers and I specifically think it is because people in those fields have a similar view point to your own and just think that these kids cannot achieve. Basically it is a culture of low expectations. I will admit many black people even have this poor view of black people, which is evidenced by your own opinions, but there is no fundamental difference between black children at age 3 versus Asian or white or Hispanic and if they are given the same opportunities in school, even if they have some dysfunction at home (which everyone does to some extent IMO) they will at least be able to take advantage of extra courses or schooling opportunities that will help them succeed academically.
But Chicago has a higher percentage of black students enrolled in their selective high schools than NYC. That was my point. The black population in NYC is 28%. If they had 8-10% of their selective enrollment as black students, I would not think there was any bias.
One percent is VERY suspicious IMO. I would think even you would think that was suspicious even with your condemnation of the educational status of black youth. And your comments regarding the educational achievement of African and Carribbean students, who make up a large portion (especially Carribbeans) of NYC's black population. I personally don't know many black New Yorkers whose parents either both aren't Carribbean or one is Carribbean or from another country and to think their kids can't get into selective enrollment schools...that is just VERY suspicious for me and is reason enough to look into their enrollment practices at those schools. Especially because I know that they have a program for minority students in NYC that will give top middle schoolers access to prestigious boarding schools in the NE and I cannot remember the percentage offhand, but at least 10% of the middle schoolers qualify for this program and I am sure the boarding schools have stricter requirements versus the NYC academies. Plus boarding/prep schools have standardized test reqirements as well as I am currently looking into boarding/pre options for high school as well as selective enrollment academies for my 10 year old son. Never too soon to plan ahead
On city-data.com it states the black population of Chicago is 32.8% not 41 and a lot of black people have moved away from Chicago so it is probably lower than that now, some think it is around 30%. And I am being conservative in regards to the percent of black students in their selective enrollment high schools. I am pretty sure it is over 20% that are black but don't have my statistics in an easily reachable place right now. My family is considering moving to Chicago specifically because of the selective enrollment schools (other high school options in consideration if my son decides he doesn't want to go to a boarding school or I don't want him to, which would probably be more likely) for my son when he goes to high school so I have really done a lot of research into CPS and magnet/selective enrollment schools there and I am pretty sure that black students account for more than 20% of their enrollment in high school, which is a good percentage since most black students go to not all that great elementary/middle schools and wouldn't be prepared for the test to go to a selective enrollment high school. But 15-20% will just by nature IMO and for NYC which has such a large amount of black people to only have 1% go to selective enrollment high schools, that is very weird and suspicious.
There is a very prestigious school in IL called IMSA (Illinois Math and Science Academy) and even they have 8-10% black students and they are highly selective so 1% is just very suspicious to me.
One percent is low, it simply could be because of the large Asian population who come for cultures where cramming for tests are the norm. So they simply get a bulk of the admittances because so many of them score high that the Black students who score high simply don't score high enough to get in.
There have been complaints from White students out West who complain about Asians taking up the slots.
As for low expectations, it's the community itself that is responsible for that. Doing well in school is denounced as,"acting white". I've just linked an article where the premier civil rights organization's response to Blacks not getting into selective schools because of their inability to pass a test, is to denounce the test and sue. No emphasis is put on actually working with Black students to actually pass the test. Until the community stops blaming racism for its inability to compete nothing much will change in the expectation department. In fact states have already reduced expectations for Black students as a result of NCLB. Nobody wants to lose their jobs because the Black community can't prepare their kids to learn adequetely.
Not being able to pass a test has nothing to do with being black. Some of the worst school districts in NJ are in 80% white, blue collar, suburban districts in South Jersey - in areas where there's a strong anti-intellectual current and zero emphasis on success.
It's not a stretch to imagine those values also being prevalent in poorer areas where most of the kids are black.
Anyone who has seen 2 minutes of Jerry Springer should know this country is full of poor (or at least working poor), uneducated white people.
Maybe the old appalachian expression "if you're poor and white, you're outta sight" actually cuts both ways. If you want to see what being poor & white in the inner city looks like, come to Philly.
Now, I'll grant you the difference is that no one has filed a lawsuit for poor white kids who go to terrible schools and most white people of even a slightly higher SES simply write them off as WT but I think in talking about this one needs to be clear that these are issues of poverty/geography - not about race or ability.
I agree with you that the solutions are very much a matter of accountability but when there as many white people who qualify for affordable housing (living in trailer parks isn't a long-term strategy) as there are black people in the whole country one needs to be careful about throwing stones.
Not being able to pass a test has nothing to do with being black. Some of the worst school districts in NJ are in 80% white, blue collar, suburban districts in South Jersey - in areas where there's a strong anti-intellectual current and zero emphasis on success.
It's not a stretch to imagine those values also being prevalent in poorer areas where most of the kids are black.
Anyone who has seen 2 minutes of Jerry Springer should know this country is full of poor (or at least working poor), uneducated white people.
Maybe the old appalachian expression "if you're poor and white, you're outta sight" actually cuts both ways. If you want to see what being poor & white in the inner city looks like, come to Philly.
Now, I'll grant you the difference is that no one has filed a lawsuit for poor white kids who go to terrible schools and most white people of even a slightly higher SES simply write them off as WT but I think in talking about this one needs to be clear that these are issues of poverty/geography - not about race or ability.
I agree with you that the solutions are very much a matter of accountability but when there as many white people who qualify for affordable housing (living in trailer parks isn't a long-term strategy) as there are black people in the whole country one needs to be careful about throwing stones.
Yawn who said anything about these problems being exclusive to Blacks?
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