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Old 04-10-2015, 08:23 PM
Status: "Louisiana road trip!" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Suburban Dallas
52,741 posts, read 48,091,804 times
Reputation: 33947

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Quote:
Her position has "evolved" over the past few years. Or.......something.

Gays and gay supporters don't and won't care what she said back then, just as they didn't care what Obama said back then.
But just like Darth Barry, she flip-flopped on the position. She didn't hold true to her real, personal convictions.
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Old 04-10-2015, 09:22 PM
 
1,720 posts, read 1,309,923 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
Just the opposite for me. As a labor negotiator, I have dealt with both and would rather have to deal with the honest adversary than the slippery snake. With the honest adversary you know exactly what they believe and thus can find a way to rapproachement. With the slippery snake, you never know quite what they truly believe or are thinking, and you end up in a long term war where everyone loses.
Honest, principled persons almost never ascend to POTUS. That's just the way it usually is. Duplicitous manipulation is usually essential to get enough votes. This is true regardless of Party: Believing otherwise is naive.
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Old 04-10-2015, 10:53 PM
 
1,058 posts, read 1,162,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PanapolicRiddle View Post
Honest, principled persons almost never ascend to POTUS. That's just the way it usually is. Duplicitous manipulation is usually essential to get enough votes. This is true regardless of Party: Believing otherwise is naive.
This times a million. One has to go to one extreme during the primaries and go to the center during the general.

If we had open primaries for Republicans and Democrats there might be a little more consistency. The other issue is having tiny non-representative states having an disproportionate role in the nominating process. I gotta say I will love to see Rand Paul and Ted Cruz deal with Iowa and its ethanol gravy train.
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Old 04-10-2015, 11:24 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,520 posts, read 33,392,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
Public opinion supporting gay marriage has gone from approx 25% in 2000 to 60% today. Attacking Hillary because her views have changed is not a winning election strategy - it just points out that rightwingers are out of touch.
Having values and morals is never out of touch.
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Old 04-10-2015, 11:35 PM
 
1,058 posts, read 1,162,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet View Post
Having values and morals is never out of touch.
Of course people have different morals and values...
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Old 04-10-2015, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
24,520 posts, read 33,392,715 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
Of course people have different morals and values...
That is usually what people with poor morals and values say!
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Old 04-11-2015, 04:35 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,364 posts, read 54,576,673 times
Reputation: 40836
Quote:
Originally Posted by case44 View Post
But just like Darth Barry, she flip-flopped on the position. She didn't hold true to her real, personal convictions.
Should any politician cling to their personal convictions or should they represent the convictions of the majority of voters?
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Old 04-11-2015, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Utah
546 posts, read 410,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Should any politician cling to their personal convictions or should they represent the convictions of the majority of voters?
If someone is honest in a campaign, this shouldn't be an issue. If the voters know what their honest convictions are, then they can vote accordingly.

A voter may also be able to vote for a person who honestly admits to different personal convictions, but agrees to not let those personal convictions be a factor in setting public policy. For example, a candidate may fervently believe life begins at conception and would not encourage anyone to have one, but may acknowledge Roe v. Wade is settled law, so those personal convictions are really irrelevant to how they would govern on the issue.

It's when people are afraid to share their personal convictions out of fear that people assume those personal convictions will dictate their public policy that we have a problem.

I don't think marijuana is a good habit to pick up, but if I were in office, I would have no problem allowing it to be legalized.

It is possible to have personal convictions while at the same time acknowledging the freedom of people to live differently and not using the force of law to make people live by your personal convictions.
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Old 04-11-2015, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,625 posts, read 16,635,080 times
Reputation: 6075
Quote:
Originally Posted by loriinwa View Post
Nah, it just reinforces the strategy of the left to use media and culture to indoctrinate the low information voter and then use ridicule and bullying to keep them in line.

On the other hand, it also proves why there is such hyperbolic fear of conservative. We continue to think for ourselves and are not goaded into beliefs so that we can be one of the "cool kids."
The bold makes absolutely no sense seeing as the Democratic Party did not change on gay marriage until after Public Opinion did. We didnt force people to start agreeing with it.
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Old 04-11-2015, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,625 posts, read 16,635,080 times
Reputation: 6075
Quote:
Originally Posted by case44 View Post
But just like Darth Barry, she flip-flopped on the position. She didn't hold true to her real, personal convictions.
Flip Flop as we uses it colloquially involves 3 steps.


Holding a position, changing it to another(this is the flip), then going back to the first(that is the flop).

Hillary did no such thing, she changed her position and has stayed with the new one. WHen she goes back to only one man and one women, then you will be right.

Also, you have no idea what either of their personal convictions are.
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