Are Bernie Sanders supporters willing to pay Denmark, Sweden, Norway levels of taxes and fees? (health care system, middle east)
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I'm really trying to figure out the argument that you're making here. Is it that the US should institute a VAT? Well, maybe.
Yes, and stop taxing income earned from foreign sources and repeal FATCA. That's how Scandinavian and European countries with all those social program goodies that Sanders and his supporters (and many other liberals) want tax their people and generate enough revenue to provide all those goodies.
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It's certainly worth having the conversation.
Yes, it is. Too many people want the goodies without having to pay up for them.
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Are you trying to argue that we should have a VAT in lieu of income taxes?
No, I'm making the point that we should implement a 25% VAT, and stop taxing income earned from foreign sources and repeal FATCA, to align our tax revenue collections with how Scandinavian and European countries do it.
Swedes of course have to pay capital gains taxes on their investment abroad, (much higher capital gains taxes than the US btw) just like other European countries as long as they live in Sweden.
You aren't seriously suggesting they can't hide their investment income including capital gains, are you? I just linked an article that explains some of the many ways it's done.
I think a VAT with exemptions for basic necessities is better than a property tax which doesnt take into account how much a person earns. Property values can skyrocket and people are forced to pay very high property taxes.
Only 2% of the total tax revenue in Sweden is generated by a property tax, 28% by consumption taxes, including green taxes, and the rest is income taxes.
Yes, and stop taxing income earned from foreign sources and repeal FATCA. That's how Scandinavian and European countries with all those social program goodies that Sanders and his supporters (and many other liberals) want tax their people and generate enough revenue to provide all those goodies.
Yes, it is. Too many people want the goodies without having to pay up for them.
No, I'm making the point that we should implement a 25% VAT, and stop taxing income earned from foreign sources and repeal FATCA, to align our tax revenue collections with how Scandinavian and European countries do it.
The US is the superpower and can force countries to comply. Scandinavian countries or Germany cant do this even if they want to.
Do you want to strengthen the unions, enact a $15 minimum wage to ensure that the term "working poor" is a thing of the past like in Scandinavia, and implement higher capital gains taxes and removing the cap on income subject to payroll tax as well, to align ourselves with Scandinavia and like most Americans want, according to polls?
The US is the superpower and can force countries to comply.
Why should they? Scandinavian and European countries prove it isn't even necessary to collect enough tax revenue to fund all their social program goodies.
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Do you want to strengthen the unions, enact a $15 minimum wage to ensure that the term "working poor" is a thing of the past like in Scandinavia, and implement higher capital gains taxes and lifting the cap on income subject to payroll tax as well, to align ourselves with Scandinavia?
We could, but that would make no difference to those who don't have a job; they still have to pay those high VAT taxes anyway. And raising the capital gains tax will only hurt those who can't hide their investments like the wealthy can and do.
I hope by now you're getting the gist of this... The income tax, capital gains tax, and consumption taxes are overwhelmingly paid by the working class and the poor in Scandinavian and European countries. The rich who don't necessarily have to work or can pay themselves little (à la Warren Buffett) can hide their investment income and capital gains and earn even more wealth tax-free. Yet somehow even with all those tax dodges available to the rich, those countries can still provide all those social program goodies that liberals covet so much. How? On the backs of the working class and the poor. So why won't the working class and the poor pay up here in the U.S.? Are they greedier and just bigger crybabies than the working class and poor Scandinavians and Europeans who actually believe in pulling their weight. After all, they benefit the most from all those social program benefits.
Why should they? Scandinavian and European countries prove it isn't even necessary to collect enough tax revenue to fund all their social program goodies.
We could, but that would make no difference to those who don't have a job; they still have to pay those high VAT taxes anyway.
Yes, and if you are poor in America, you get paid starvation wages, go bankrupt because of cancer treatment, cant afford education, cant afford child care, no vacation, no sick leave, no paid time off to bond with a baby. What's so great about that?
People who dont have a job in Scandinavia get 80% unemployment benefits for years and an abundance of job training, education and help to find another job. If you are disabled, you dont want to live in America.
Do you honestly believe that just because people pay 25% VAT in Scandinavia with exemptions for necessities, the working class and poor would have it better in America?
I hope by now you're getting the gist of this... The income tax, capital gains tax, and consumption taxes are overwhelmingly paid by the working class and the poor in Scandinavian and European countries. The rich who don't necessarily have to work or can pay themselves little (à la Warren Buffett) can hide their investment income and capital gains and earn even more wealth tax-free. Yet somehow even with all those tax dodges available to the rich, those countries can still provide all those social program goodies that liberals covet so much. How? On the backs of the working class and the poor. So why won't the working class and the poor pay up here in the U.S.? Are they greedier and just bigger crybabies than the working class and poor Scandinavians and Europeans who actually believe in pulling their weight. After all, they benefit the most from all those social program benefits.
I agree with this. The middle class and poor are the ones really paying the bulk taxes, while in America it's the complete opposite. People voting for Sanders need to understand this and if they say, well I don't mind seeing 50% of my income going away in taxes and fees as long as I get free healthcare, my kids get free tuition etc then I can respect them. However, if they think they can continue paying little, while getting these freebies then they really need to wake up. Right now the top 10% pay roughly 70% of the taxes in America.
I agree with this. The middle class and poor are the ones really paying the bulk taxes, while in America it's the complete opposite. People voting for Sanders need to understand this and if they say, well I don't mind seeing 50% of my income going away in taxes and fees as long as I get free healthcare, my kids get free tuition etc then I can respect them. However, if they think they can continue paying little, while getting these freebies then they really need to wake up. Right now the top 10% pay roughly 70% of the taxes in America.
Or.......I would rather see my taxes going to healthcare and education for my kids than useless wars and bailing out investment banks.
I agree with this. The middle class and poor are the ones really paying the bulk taxes, while in America it's the complete opposite. People voting for Sanders need to understand this and if they say, well I don't mind seeing 50% of my income going away in taxes and fees as long as I get free healthcare, my kids get free tuition etc then I can respect them. However, if they think they can continue paying little, while getting these freebies then they really need to wake up. Right now the top 10% pay roughly 70% of the taxes in America.
Yes, the middle class actually exist in Scandinavia, it is flourishing, and the term working poor doesnt exist. You assume that the lower classes are the same and suffer equally in the US and Scandinavia. They are not. The poor in America live horrendous lives compared to Scandinavia.
The top 0.1% Americans are faaaar richer than the Scandinavian top 0.1% and pay far less taxes than in Scandinavia.
Yes, and if you are poor in America, you get paid starvation wages, go bankrupt because of cancer treatment, cant afford education, cant afford child care, no vacation, no sick leave, no paid time off to bond with a baby. What's so great about that?
Implement a 25% VAT tax that EVERYONE pays, and those problems will diminish. We'll have a LOT more tax revenue to provide the social program goodies you want.
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People who dont have a job in Scandinavia get 80% unemployment benefits for years and an abundance of job training, education and help to find another job.
Again, implement a 25% VAT tax that EVERYONE pays, and we can have those goodies, too.
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If you are disabled, you dont want to live in America.
Why not? They get all kinds of freebies. And pay no VAT tax like the disabled in Scandinavia and Europe have to pay.
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Do you honestly believe that just because people pay 25% VAT in Scandinavia with exemptions for necessities, the working class and poor would have it better in America?
There aren't necessarily exemptions for necessities. Sometimes the VAT is lower on such things. What I'm saying is that we can't have Scandinavian-style and European-style social program goodies here in the U.S. because too many of the working class and poor (who combined make up the bulk of the population) pay too little in taxes, so the revenue to pay for those just isn't there.
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