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Old 12-22-2015, 12:59 PM
 
Location: In an indoor space
7,685 posts, read 5,423,125 times
Reputation: 5148

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
He absolutely shouldn't have said it. But he did, and he made a mistake, and that's okay, as long as he owns up to it IMO. He needs to say, "I got my numbers wrong" or "It wasn't thousands, I got mixed up, but there were some celebrating here and there throughout the region" or something. But he won't, because he's arrogant and he likes being right even if he isn't.

It be great if he admitted it but then other candidates are also to be eliminated in the election for inaccuracies - yes I know it's not about the others but solely to crucify Trump here. So I guess you stay home and not vote lol! j/k really!

We could go on forever about the "well x candidate did and said this, so why is what y candidate did and said so much worse?" It's just petty childish nonsense. Yeah, all candidates make mistakes or do and say some pretty bad or poorly timed things. But it's not a contest, and trying to deflect onto another's actions on a thread about something and someone totally different just isn't necessary. I seriously despise Hillary. If I wanted to talk bad about her I would. But this thread isn't about her. It's about Trump. So let's not get off topic. I'm sure there are plenty of threads about Hillary's wrongdoings.

Yes maybe I shouldn't have said anything about others running here but then others who do the same in any political thread should be "crucified" with me by the mods? I do think that the mods understand where and why I posted what I did when I did while still responding to the thread subject firstly. I know that this thread subject bothers you.

Point is, Trump said "thousands" and he's wrong. He's been proven wrong, and the discrepancy between thousands and a few dozen is astounding yet I wish I could say I'm shocked that people are still defending him and trying to make what he said okay even given that discrepancy.
Well I'm from the camp that right is right and wrong is wrong and YES Trump was wrong imo and not defending nor was it okay what he stated for sure.
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Old 12-22-2015, 01:56 PM
 
12,899 posts, read 12,326,278 times
Reputation: 18373
^ I don't think Trump should be eliminated from the race for this lie. If that was the case, we'd have no one running because all politicians/people running for office lie. But when faced with the truth, I don't think they're honest people unless they own up to it and admit to a mistake. So Trump won't get my vote, I don't think - but not just for this. There are many factors involved when one votes, at least you'd hope. I know there are for me.
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Old 12-22-2015, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
16,155 posts, read 12,421,593 times
Reputation: 13966
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
He needs to say, "I got my numbers wrong" or "It wasn't thousands, I got mixed up, but there were some celebrating here and there throughout the region" or something.
I know you want to help but nice try. The reason "he won't" is because he knows you want another apology, another correction, another walk back. This is what killed every other Republican that had a slip up. They rushed to the podium to placate the press first before checking with their supporters to see if they cared. Trump knows who he is talking to. He will never get your vote so he is not going to try to please. Romney walked back his 47% remark and countless others. Did you vote for him?
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:13 PM
 
12,899 posts, read 12,326,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider View Post
I know you want to help but nice try. The reason "he won't" is because he knows you want another apology, another correction, another walk back. This is what killed every other Republican that had a slip up. They rushed to the podium to placate the press first before checking with their supporters to see if they cared. Trump knows who he is talking to. He will never get your vote so he is not going to try to please. Romney walked back his 47% remark and countless others. Did you vote for him?
I don't want to help anyone. The fact is that Trump is wrong, and he has been proven wrong as there is no evidence or direct personal anecdotes of "thousands" of people celebrating on the street in Jersey City. It simply didn't happen. He's either lying, exaggerating to make try to a point, or remembering incorrectly/remembering footage from the ME instead. You and others can try to say "well his point still stands why do the numbers matter so much" but to me it doesn't stand at all because the difference between "thousands" and 30 is astronomical. The difference between those points is rather than thousands of Muslims celebrating 9/11 in one city, which is what he wants to think, it was only a couple dozen that we can prove. So his whole point of "don't trust Muslims" is now moot since he is straight up lying.

I don't care if he apologizes or not. I will say that it would be the right thing to do, but I won't vote for him either way. I wasn't planning on voting for him even before he said this ridiculous lie that he refuses to back down from. It just boggles my mind that some of his supporters defend him so much that they will claim the difference between "thousands" and a few dozen is "not a big deal." Of course it's a big deal.
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:41 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,144 posts, read 23,094,302 times
Reputation: 11127
It's a fact that nearly all Muslims, here or abroad, dislike our support of Israel and general Mid East foreign policy. Quite frankly I don't like that aspects of America much either. I would say a vast majority oppose terrorism to punish us for our policies though a minority do. Re 9/11 I suspect many American Muslims didn't support the attacks but did sympathize with the attackers to a degree. Conservative Muslims despise the fact that the West tries to prevent Muslims from practicing orthodox Islam in their own countries. You can't dodge that fact when talking about terrorism.


PC people are wrong to suggest 99% of Muslims were against 9/11. Trump is wrong is suggest all Muslims support terrorism. The truth is in the middle
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
22,707 posts, read 11,231,458 times
Reputation: 14406
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
It's a fact that nearly all Muslims, here or abroad, dislike our support of Israel and general Mid East foreign policy. Quite frankly I don't like that aspects of America much either. I would say a vast majority oppose terrorism to punish us for our policies though a minority do. Re 9/11 I suspect many American Muslims didn't support the attacks but did sympathize with the attackers to a degree. Conservative Muslims despise the fact that the West tries to prevent Muslims from practicing orthodox Islam in their own countries. You can't dodge that fact when talking about terrorism.

PC people are wrong to suggest 99% of Muslims were against 9/11. Trump is wrong is suggest all Muslims support terrorism. The truth is in the middle
Most posters in this forum, like me, oppose the US government on one issue or another, sometimes on religious grounds, and very vehemently. There's no reason why american muslims should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us.

I'm quite sure that just about nobody here is going to start throwing bombs. If I'm wrong about that, I support throwing the law books at them. I won't give anyone a pass on that, even if they claim to be "protecting america against muslims".
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:54 PM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
15,802 posts, read 6,712,030 times
Reputation: 9215
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
I've never questioned that. In fact, I'm quite certain that if you looked hard enough, you would find that there were a few christians who welcomed 9/11 as the harbinger of the imminent second coming. And a few radical leftists as the beginning of the end of american hegemony. Regardless, the point is that a few nuts does not translate into a sizable anti-american force within america.




There are way too many violent muslims in the world. The question at hand is whether most american muslims are violent or not. I think the evidence is that they are not.




Happy to see that we agree on this.
I remember Jerry Falwell making some comments about 9/11 being the chickens coming home to roost for America's acceptance of feminism, abortion rights, gay rights, etc. Some other conservative Christians at the time made similar comments.
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:58 PM
 
41,433 posts, read 21,082,046 times
Reputation: 24701
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider View Post
The reason "he won't" is because he knows you want another apology, another correction, another walk back. This is what killed every other Republican that had a slip up. They rushed to the podium to placate the press first before checking with their supporters to see if they cared.
Sure sounds like you're saying that Trump is banking on his supporter not caring if what he says is in any way factual. Now, I don't disagree with that in the slightest, but I am mildly surprised to see a Trump backer declaring it this openly.
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Old 12-22-2015, 04:04 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
14,400 posts, read 8,376,013 times
Reputation: 13849
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
There is a huge difference between "thousands" and "some pockets of 20-30 here and there." If Trump's supporters can't see that, they have an issue. His "general point" is very different given that discrepancy. Yes there were supporters, which is so sick, but don't greatly exaggerate it, making a city and even state look bad.

I don't like Hillary. I also don't particularly like Trump though I do like some of what he has to say. Just not this. He is lying when he says he saw thousands. It's an outright lie, and if people can't see that I can't help you.
I re-read what Trump said and I think I know where the discrepancy lies. We now know that there were many pockets of modest crowds of jubilant muslims in JC on 9-11. Trump said he saw the cheering on TV. 9-11 was constant news coverage showing clips over and over. He likely saw some of the same clips more than once which turned hundreds or one thousand into thousands in his mind. He was still generally right though.
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Old 12-22-2015, 04:12 PM
 
24,832 posts, read 12,321,104 times
Reputation: 6098
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJJersey View Post
He likely saw some of the same clips more than once which turned hundreds or one thousand into thousands in his mind. He was still generally right though.
this was pointed out to trump and he still insisted that he saw "thousands and thousands" broadcast in new jersey on 9/11. his campaign has gone so far as to claim it's a conspiracy by the networks and local stations to hide the footage:

Trump Campaign Manager Accuses Media of Suppressing Proof of Cheering Muslims on 9/11 | Mediaite

that's not "generally right".
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