Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I say go for it. Close all the military bases, cut off all federal aid, including Medicare benefits ( the seniors on the islands will love that). Also, anyone not receiving SS now will never be able to apply in the future.
If "native" Hawaiians don't like being part of the USA they can move back to Polynesia... or Tahiti. Tahitians conquered the original Polynesian settlers about 1300AD.
If the US pulls out, HI will be speaking Chinese in short order.
Do you know if this a generational or coming from all ages?
I'm not exactly sure. I moved with my family to the mainland when I was 14 (I'm 23 now), so at that time I didn't pay much attention to it. I had plenty of friends who were kanaka and as a kama'aina we got along great (though looking back it seemed a bit different for the haoles). I'm moving back to Kapa'a in August so I'll be much more up to speed on it.
Kamehameha what was the law of the land?
what laws were broken?
What treats were in place?
is there anyone making a claim?
the Illegal US overthrow was illegal
the US and Kingdom of Hawaii had gov. to gov relations
the US apologized for the overthrow
you cannot annex a foreign country within US laws
there is more.... later...
To me it comes down to morality. Both annexations were unjust - I don't believe laws dictate whether an act is just or not. There may not have been a law against murder when Kamehameha seized Maui from Kalanikupule and sacrificed him to Ku, but I don't think that makes it moral. They both were motivated by greed - Kamehameha wasn't trying to do what was best for the people of Kaua'i, and the US wasn't thinking of what was necessarily in the interests of Hawaiians. I also understand that the world doesn't operate under my idea of morality, so I also have to factor in reality. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, and I really don't have a horse in this race besides the fact that I love Hawai'i and the native hawaiians (supposedly I'm 1/8 hawaiian...I don't know, we don't have any documentation)
I believe at this point, with the annexation long past and the people of Hawai'i voting almost unanimously to become a state (though I'll admit this is skewed as well because there were so many haoles there at the time that of course they were going to vote to become a state), Hawai'i's cannot simply claim they are a special case as opposed to any other state.
Most of the people pushing for Hawaiian sovereignty aren't even Hawaiian. It's the people that have less than 25% native blood and don't qualify for homestead housing, educational benefits, etc. I live on Oahu now, my in-laws are REAL Hawaiians, and I know plenty of other actual Hawaiians. They like things as they are; their main gripe is the crappy infrastructure and shortcomings of the local government in general.
Most of the people pushing for Hawaiian sovereignty are descended from the aboriginal and indigenous people of the Hawaiian archipelago. "Blood quantum" is an invention of the United States government, which used it as a tool to divide, conquer, and subjugate American Indian tribes and discovered that it was also quite useful in Hawaiʻi. Prior to the overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy in 1893, "Hawaiian" was a nationality. Nowadays, it has devolved into a "race" or "ethnic group" and some folks would like to see it further devolve in to a mere "tribe," akin to the Navajo, the Cherokee, and the Sioux.
Quote:
Originally Posted by veezybell
People that support sovereignty swear that the tourism is solely responsible for keeping the economy afloat, but don't realize how much revenue is generated by the military. The military doesn't own the land for any of the bases here (and Oahu has every single branch of the US military), so that means they're already leasing the land. The BAH/COLA is one of the highest in the country if not THE highest (with respect to DC and SF), and there's a boatload of money in Hawaiian real estate because of the ridiculous housing costs, on top of the crazy association fees.
There are a wide range of folks that support some form of Hawaiian sovereignty and the folks that I know are well aware of the impact that the U.S. military and Federal government have on the Hawaiian economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by veezybell
Pull the US outta Hawaii, then what? Hawaii has to make its own military? Good luck. The US companies will move back to the mainland because Hawaii is one of the least-friendly states when it comes to the cost of doing business, so that will drive up the cost of all the products being shipped out here. Plus all of these unions will have to go away. And who will be in charge? Will it remain a democracy, or will it become a monarchy again? You see what happened last time. One person has total power to sign the country away.
Go back and peruse the "Constitution of the Native Hawaiian Nation." The goal of the folks that drafted that constitution is to gain "Federal recognition" and create a "dependent sovereign nation" within the confines of the United States. Based on the U.S. Department of Interior's "Procedures for Reestablishing a Formal Government-to-Government Relationship with the Native Hawaiian Community," if a "Native Hawaiian governing entity" is established and recognized by the U.S. Government and the State of Hawaiʻi, it would only get to manage and control the resources and waters of Kahoʻolawe, subject to the "plenary authority" of the U.S. Congress.
you mean once the Hawaiian are recognized by the United states, they would get Kahoolave?? and only that, despite the whole island chain belongs to them if not recognized...
Most of the people pushing for Hawaiian sovereignty are descended from the aboriginal and indigenous people of the Hawaiian archipelago. "Blood quantum" is an invention of the United States government, which used it as a tool to divide, conquer, and subjugate American Indian tribes and discovered that it was also quite useful in Hawaiʻi. Prior to the overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy in 1893, "Hawaiian" was a nationality. Nowadays, it has devolved into a "race" or "ethnic group" and some folks would like to see it further devolve in to a mere "tribe," akin to the Navajo, the Cherokee, and the Sioux.
Well for an invention made up by the US, it seems that a lotta locals are proud of their blood quantum.
Quote:
There are a wide range of folks that support some form of Hawaiian sovereignty and the folks that I know are well aware of the impact that the U.S. military and Federal government have on the Hawaiian economy.
So what do they hope to gain by splitting off from the US?
Quote:
Go back and peruse the "Constitution of the Native Hawaiian Nation." The goal of the folks that drafted that constitution is to gain "Federal recognition" and create a "dependent sovereign nation" within the confines of the United States. Based on the U.S. Department of Interior's "Procedures for Reestablishing a Formal Government-to-Government Relationship with the Native Hawaiian Community," if a "Native Hawaiian governing entity" is established and recognized by the U.S. Government and the State of Hawaiʻi, it would only get to manage and control the resources and waters of Kahoʻolawe, subject to the "plenary authority" of the U.S. Congress.
I read it. So they want their own nation, but to also have the same benefits as citizens of the US? It seems a little hypocritical to me.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
