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Old 03-16-2016, 11:14 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,874,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
Then why is there even voting?
The party chooses the nominee, but they don't choose who wins in the general election.
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:15 AM
 
1,184 posts, read 720,271 times
Reputation: 884
In the future every governor/senator will run and stay in with the sole purpose of winning their home states and splitting the vote to ensure this elite selection process
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:19 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,381,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
Then why is there even voting?
It gives the little people the silly idea they actually matter and keeps advertising media in the money.
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:24 AM
 
34,300 posts, read 15,646,770 times
Reputation: 13053
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The party chooses the nominee, but they don't choose who wins in the general election.
That is very much what was done in the old U.S.S.R. one party, two choices, vote for your flavor of the same poison.
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,780 posts, read 18,133,005 times
Reputation: 14777
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsRock View Post
You want a ballot that has more pages and options than a Cheesecake Factory menu??

Isn't that what the Republicans had at the start of this Primary season?


This antiquated system of electorate should go. Centuries ago the news was not very efficient; not like today's internet. Word-of-mouth (gossip) was how many did get their news. Then we had the advent of radio and TV and things got better for some time. Now we can get different perspectives from anyplace on the face of this planet instantly. Do we still need those to 'protect' us from making wrong choices? Who decides what is a 'wrong choice'?
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Gods country
8,105 posts, read 6,750,401 times
Reputation: 10421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones View Post
The real answer is revolution, but it will never happen.
This is true!!!
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:38 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,874,717 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
It gives the little people the silly idea they actually matter and keeps advertising media in the money.
Actually, it's more complicated than that.

The parties have an interest in winning elections. People vote in elections. Therefore, the parties have an interest in those voters, and getting the voters to vote for their candidates. As communications and election technologies have developed, the parties were pressured to make the selection of their nominees more transparent and more democratic. The parties developed rules and procedures to achieve that transparency and to give voters a greater say.

When Abraham Lincoln was the nominee, he didn't go into the convention as a front-runner. He used the rules in place then to capture the nomination. Against people that were more widely known, and were more popular at the time. Party loyalty was so strong that he didn't need to be nationally known to win office. And that's truly remarkable, since the Republican Party that nominated Abraham Lincoln was virtually brand new.

The parties are and have always been private organizations. They make the rules for themselves just like any other private organization. While the activities they engage in are very much public activities, and regulated by the states, the purpose of the parties originally was to expedite the election process, to provide a shorthand for voters that their candidates stood for certain policies and positions that the party stood for.

That shorthand is becoming increasingly faulty. Trump doesn't stand for policies and positions advocated for by the party. Since the 1960's and Kennedy's election, we've seen Presidential candidates that have increasingly run as individuals, not as party candidates. While traditionally the Republican party was the party with more cohesion, and the Democratic party seemed to be more fractured because it was composed of uneasy alliances, what has happened is that there has been a shift. The Democratic party is still composed of uneasy alliances, but a division has grown in the Republican party that centers on actually defining what the Republican party is. Conservative and moderate factions have declared war on one another as each tries to assert control of the party.

The irony is that Trump is not a true conservative, but he's taken some positions that the moderate faction of the Republican party cannot support, and for whatever reason, that conservative faction of the party has rallied around a candidate that in other years they would have called a RINO, because that conservative faction sees Trump as their best strategy for denying the moderate faction control of the party.

A very interesting year in politics.
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:44 AM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,707,497 times
Reputation: 26860
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Actually, it's more complicated than that.

The parties have an interest in winning elections. People vote in elections. Therefore, the parties have an interest in those voters, and getting the voters to vote for their candidates. As communications and election technologies have developed, the parties were pressured to make the selection of their nominees more transparent and more democratic. The parties developed rules and procedures to achieve that transparency and to give voters a greater say.

When Abraham Lincoln was the nominee, he didn't go into the convention as a front-runner. He used the rules in place then to capture the nomination. Against people that were more widely known, and were more popular at the time. Party loyalty was so strong that he didn't need to be nationally known to win office. And that's truly remarkable, since the Republican Party that nominated Abraham Lincoln was virtually brand new.

The parties are and have always been private organizations. They make the rules for themselves just like any other private organization. While the activities they engage in are very much public activities, and regulated by the states, the purpose of the parties originally was to expedite the election process, to provide a shorthand for voters that their candidates stood for certain policies and positions that the party stood for.

That shorthand is becoming increasingly faulty. Trump doesn't stand for policies and positions advocated for by the party. Since the 1960's and Kennedy's election, we've seen Presidential candidates that have increasingly run as individuals, not as party candidates. While traditionally the Republican party was the party with more cohesion, and the Democratic party seemed to be more fractured because it was composed of uneasy alliances, what has happened is that there has been a shift. The Democratic party is still composed of uneasy alliances, but a division has grown in the Republican party that centers on actually defining what the Republican party is. Conservative and moderate factions have declared war on one another as each tries to assert control of the party.

The irony is that Trump is not a true conservative, but he's taken some positions that the moderate faction of the Republican party cannot support, and for whatever reason, that conservative faction of the party has rallied around a candidate that in other years they would have called a RINO, because that conservative faction sees Trump as their best strategy for denying the moderate faction control of the party.

A very interesting year in politics.
^^^^ Too many paragraphs and too much history! *sarcasm*

Actually, you summed it up perfectly, but don't be surprised if no one reads it.
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:46 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,101,577 times
Reputation: 9383
Its only been this way for how many decade?
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Old 03-16-2016, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,743,685 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
Isn't that what the Republicans had at the start of this Primary season?

This antiquated system of electorate should go. Centuries ago the news was not very efficient; not like today's internet. Word-of-mouth (gossip) was how many did get their news. Then we had the advent of radio and TV and things got better for some time. Now we can get different perspectives from anyplace on the face of this planet instantly. Do we still need those to 'protect' us from making wrong choices? Who decides what is a 'wrong choice'?
I repeat - you, and every other american voter, can write in whoever you want for president, and bypass the party system completely. So if so many people hate the parties, why aren't many more people doing this? Absolutely nothing is stopping you or anyone else from choosing to do this.

Not sure what you mean by "This antiquated system of electorate should go", but if you mean the electoral college should go, then this is an idea that's been kicked around for years now. But it will require a constitutional amendment, so you'll need to get a national organization going - a lot like a political party in fact - to get it done. And then you'll find out why it hasn't been changed already, and will have to deal with those reasons. It will be hard work - much harder than posting on c-d - but I'm sure you're up for it. Aren't you?
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