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Oh, the case isn't closed quite yet. The majority of our oil comes from Saudi Arabia. There is no way that Hillary is going to push for clean energy because Saudi Arabia along with some other Middle East countries own a piece of her: Arab nations
The US was talking about green energy when I was in high school in the early 1970s. We went to a showroom in Elkhart, IN to look at the electric cars that they were selling. This was almost 50 years ago.
Hillary wants to keep us energy dependent. In reality, dependent across the board.
Shutting down the coal plants is an effort that Hillary is making to pay back contributions to her money laundering "foundation".
Shutting down the coal mines will keep us energy dependent on the Middle East and help Hillary repay them for their generous contributions to her. That's a lot of favors!
Should have read that first link. It clearly says "public opinion" says most oil is from Saudi Arabia, while in reality most comes from North and South America.
Fact is, most now comes from Canada.
But it's hard to spin that, isn't it?
As for the OP, I thought that people wanted plain-speaking candidates.
Well, there are you go.
The US is awash in natural gas. An estimate in 2013 was that there was somewhere around 84 years of technically recoverable resources of dry natural gas in the United States.
Here is the estimates on coal, the very itty bitty tip of the pyramid labeled active mines is enough fo rthe next 20 years. The important section is "estimated recoverable reserves". That is coal that is known to exist with absolutely certainly and can be feasibly mined using current mining techniques. The larger section "demostrated reserve base" is also know to exist with absolute certainty but may not be feasible with current mining techniques or have other issues like being located under a town. The rest of it is best guesstimate.
As a practical matter there is an infinite supply, it will have long been supplanted with other tech like geothermal before it runs out
I just noticed that the coal banners are also gun banners.
I guess we'll be hearing about common sense coal laws pretty soon. We got them for nuclear power and that mode is on life support now (I live near a facility).
Oh, and no one, absolutely no one, has answered my question if it makes sense to use one primary energy source to produce another.
No but I have petroleum oil lamps in case there is a power failure. The whaling industry didn't go out of business because of lack of demand, they went out of business because a cheaper and more abundant source for oil came on the market. Oil lamps went out business because of electric, primarily produced by coal.
Electric is electric, what is important is the cost to produce it and nothing can compare to coal.
These business's are dying because of market forces, there is simply a better product on the market that is either cheaper or provides better services. They are not losing business because the government is driving up the cost for them to do business while offsetting the cost of the competitors.
Actually PV solar is now cheaper than coal or gas. From the wiki... ****************************
In a power purchase agreement in the United States in July 2015 for a period of 20 years of solar power will be paid 3.87 UScent per kilowatt hour (38.7 USD/MWh). The solar system, which produces this solar power, is in Nevada (USA) and has 100 MW capacity.[64] Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid solar farm (2016)[edit]
For a construction phase of Sheikh Mohammed Bin Rashid solar farms over 800 MW photovoltaic a bid of 0.0299 US dollars per kilowatt hour of solar energy was in the spring of 2016 at a tender achieved.[65] *************************************
Neither coal nor gas can compete at these prices. They of course are not dispatchable But as the cost gets low enough you duplicate the dispatchable supplies to achieve the best economics. This will likely favor gas plants at least until some form of viable storage is developed.
Here is the estimates on coal, the very itty bitty tip of the pyramid labeled active mines is enough fo rthe next 20 years. The important section is "estimated recoverable reserves". That is coal that is known to exist with absolutely certainly and can be feasibly mined using current mining techniques. The larger section "demostrated reserve base" is also know to exist with absolute certainty but may not be feasible with current mining techniques or have other issues like being located under a town. The rest of it is best guesstimate.
As a practical matter there is an infinite supply, it will have long been supplanted with other tech like geothermal before it runs out
And the cost to mine that coal is exorbitantly more expensive that natural gas. Plus we have months of coal stockpiled now. Got that? We have too much coal sitting around because natural gas is cheaper to get and cheaper to transport. This is reality and you need to accept it.
And if they ever decided to go after that coal, that could do it with far far fewer workers than they used to. We have equipment that is just more efficient now. So you have the abundance of cheaper natural gas and the technology that makes getting what coal they actually do want, attainable with far far fewer workers.
Did I mention we have months of coal stockpiled now?
Coal stockpiles at electric generating facilities totaled 197 million tons at the end of 2015, the highest level since June 2012 and the highest year-end inventories in at least 25 years.
Hillary tried to dodge the question in Pennsylvania. Finally put to task she simply states that Coal Workers will have to find other jobs if she is elected. Maybe she doesn't know there are 1000s of coal workers in Penn.
No but I have petroleum oil lamps in case there is a power failure. The whaling industry didn't go out of business because of lack of demand, they went out of business because a cheaper and more abundant source for oil came on the market. Oil lamps went out business because of electric, primarily produced by coal.
Electric is electric, what is important is the cost to produce it and nothing can compare to coal.
These business's are dying because of market forces, there is simply a better product on the market that is either cheaper or provides better services. They are not losing business because the government is driving up the cost for them to do business while offsetting the cost of the competitors.
You are talking to a person who thinks the government has no business in anybody's business.
The USA government need not pick any winners or losers. They have no business subsidizing anything from sugar, to corn for auto fuel or wars for oil or bankers.
I have seen on many real sites that if the consumers had to pay the true cost of gasoline the cost would be from 11-15 dollars a gallon.
IMO, one of the true cost of fuel is air pollution. Now calculate the price with the medical care, lost time at work, cost of clean up yada yada.
Business has the right to make whatever the consumer wants to purchase. Do they also have the right to poison the environment while they are making income?
DH consulted with some guys who had a business for a short time trying to figure out what to do with fly ash. They were thinking brick. Didn't work out
Efficiency:The efficiency of power generation from gas means it competes with coal even when it costs 1.5 times as much. “When the ratio of natural gas prices to coal prices is approximately 1.5 or lower, a typical natural gas-fired combined-cycle plant has lower generating costs than a typical coal-fired plant.”
The average cost of gas has been twice that of coal since 2008, this is the fact you keep trying to ignore. That average is not based on declining cost but one that has fluctuated between $2 and $6/MMBTU. The other fact you are trying to ignore is the ever increasing regulatory burden put on coal.
Quote:
Competitiveness: “For new builds, natural gas and renewables generally are more competitive than coal.”
Yes the capital investment in gas plants is cheaper but that has always been the case. Renewables? bahahaha..... One of the reasons coal is so cheap is that it's designed to run 27/7/365 for the next 60 or 70 years with some downtime for maintenance, coal is the choice fuel for this because it has the lowest cost per BTU.
Quote:
Flexibility: “In general, combined-cycle (gas) units are considered to be more flexible than steam turbines. They can ramp their output up and down more easily, and their start-up and shutdown procedures involve less time and expense.”
This is a role gas has always filled with intermediary and peaking plants.
The average cost of gas has been twice that of coal since 2008, this is the fact you keep trying to ignore. That average is not based on declining cost but one that has fluctuated between $2 and $6/MMBTU. The other fact you are trying to ignore is the ever increasing regulatory burden put on coal.
Yes the capital investment in gas plants is cheaper but that has always been the case. Renewables? bahahaha..... One of the reasons coal is so cheap is that it's designed to run 27/7/365 for the next 60 or 70 years with some downtime for maintenance, coal is the choice fuel for this because it has the lowest cost per BTU.
This is a role gas has always filled with intermediary and peaking plants.
You keep lamenting the end of coal while ignoring reality. We have massive amounts of coal stockpiled.
Natural gas is cheaper to get and transport and easily available. It's time to face reality. Everyone has shown you the data in two very lengthy posts.
If an energy company thought coal was better than natural gas, why are they retiring all the coal plants and switching to natural gas?
How long do you think it will take to use up all the coal they already have stockpiled?
The only new coal plant I've found built was designed to use less coal. The rest were being retired.
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