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Plus we have months of coal stockpiled now. Got that?
And we have huge supply of gas, got that? You're trying to argue over supply for one industry is an issue and trying to ignore the over supply of the other. LOL
This is not something new, the over supply in both industries will evaporate at some point.
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And if they ever decided to go after that coal, that could do it with far far fewer workers than they used to.
This is an issue that faces any industry including the gas industry. Now if it was just employess losing their jobs you may have point but we are talking about companies going bankrupt.
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Did I mention we have months of coal stockpiled now?
Did I mention the over supply of gas at all time high over the last 5 years?
At least she isn't pandering to the coal and steel workers like a certain GOP presidential candidate.
She just panders to different people. And "pander" is definitely the right word. That's all any of them do.
If, for instance, Hilary also told the 40% of women volunteering to be single parents that their choice of family arrangement was uneconomic, then I would respect her. But we all know that's not going to happen.
None of them are for true free markets any more. All we have is a mix of Corporate Cronyism and Socialism. 2 different masks on the same face.
I'm not saying that coal doesn't have a place at the energy table because it definitely does. My issue is with a candidate that is telling the coal workers that he will give them their jobs back. And when you look at the situation with an impartial view, the industry is not going to ever be the same again. And whoever gets elected President, there are going to be a lot of those people who are not going to ever get their jobs back.
And we have huge supply of gas, got that? You're trying to argue over supply for one industry is an issue and trying to ignore the over supply of the other. LOL
This is not something new, the over supply in both industries will evaporate at some point.
This is an issue that faces any industry including the gas industry. Now if it was just employess losing their jobs you may have point but we are talking about companies going bankrupt.
Did I mention the over supply of gas at all time high over the last 5 years?
So you acknowledge that there is an oversupply of natural gas and coal. And natural gas is cheaper. And natural gas is cleaner. And natural gas is cheaper to transport. So why use the coal???
Yes, those companies are going bankrupt unless they switch to natural gas. That is market forces at work. Yes, that is happening, no one is disputing it. People aren't buying a lot of media anymore either, the Blockbusters and Hollywood Videos are a distant memory now that everyone just downloads their entertainment.
Face it, you are seeing market forces at work. Coal is losing to natural gas, plain and simple, just like DVDs are losing to online streaming.
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Originally Posted by JRR
I'm not saying that coal doesn't have a place at the energy table because it definitely does. My issue is with a candidate that is telling the coal workers that he will give them their jobs back. And when you look at the situation with an impartial view, the industry is not going to ever be the same again. And whoever gets elected President, there are going to be a lot of those people who are not going to ever get their jobs back.
Of course not. Telling them they will is just plain lying to them and it doesn't help them at all. I'm sure it's upsetting for them but they need to start planning for their next venture.
Hillary tried to dodge the question in Pennsylvania. Finally put to task she simply states that Coal Workers will have to find other jobs if she is elected. Maybe she doesn't know there are 1000s of coal workers in Penn.
Duke Energy is retiring twenty coal plants (at least), converting two (at least) to natural gas and then they say this:
In the Carolinas, we have built a modern and highly efficient 825-megawatt advanced clean-coal unit that incorporates an array of air quality control technologies to reduce emissions. Its high efficiency also means it burns less coal per megawatt-hour than most other coal units in the nation.
Got that? They built ONE coal plant in the Carolinas that burns less coal while retiring twenty coal plants. Then they say this:
In Indiana, we have built a state-of-the-art 618-megawatt integrated gasification combined-cycle power plant that converts coal to a synthetic gas that is used to produce power.
That's it. Retiring at least twenty coal plants, building one that uses less coal and one coal to synthetic gas. And that's just one company. Multiple coal companies are just outright laying off and filing bankruptcy. We did this whole discussion in the past month over multiple pages.
The decline of coal has been analyzed endlessly. A large percentage of coal miners need to either move to the natural gas industry or retrain in another field
Did I mention the over supply of gas at all time high over the last 5 years?
I can testify to that . I bought a slug of Chesapeake Energy stock (second largest natural gas producer in the US) with the idea that somewhere down the line production would be tamped down to get prices up. But the companies just kept cranking up production even at lower and lower prices to produce cash flow at the cost of profits. Not one of my better investment ideas.
You keep lamenting the end of coal while ignoring reality. We have massive amounts of coal stockpiled. .
Natural gas, too so to speak. Several companies have paid option fees on family land. One even did the site prep work, then the bottom fell out of the market.
Over the past eight years, Duke Energy has invested more than $4 billion in wind and solar facilities in 12 states.
“As the cost of solar energy continues to decrease and the efficiency of panels grows, we’re increasing our investments in solar,” said Alex Glenn, Duke Energy state president for Florida, in a statement. “It’s part of our ongoing strategy to offer clean energy and provide customers more options to use renewable energy.”
Okay that is brilliant and you know what the next complaint will be? What about all the natural gas workers?!
It's market forces at work. Sun and wind are great resources and as they get better at using them, it will create an ever larger surplus of natural gas and coal.
So you acknowledge that there is an oversupply of natural gas and coal. And natural gas is cheaper. And natural gas is cleaner. And natural gas is cheaper to transport. So why use the coal???
Don't kid yourself. This is not the marketplace at work. Obama and now Hillary are actively planning to kill coal Obama said it before he even got elected. This is not something new. Besides, we may not use cal as much but coal can always be exported. And this notion of I am going to replace it with new jobs is preposterous on the face of it. They have no more ambitious plan than replacing their paychecks with a welfare check.
The factory closings on the one hand and the welfare checks on the other created lots of idle people. And what do they do with all that spare time? Drugs. Government checks are easily laundered (In Appalachia a favorite trick is to buy cases of soda with food stamps and re-sell them for cash).
Manufacturing shed 5 million jobs after 2000, giving way to welfare, drugs and despondency. The number of Americans receiving welfare of one kind or another exploded from 42 million (or 18.8 percent of Americans) in 1983 to 109 million (or 35 percent) in 2012. As America added 83 million citizens, then, it added 67 million welfare recipients — during a period of massive wealth creation. (Per-capita income rose from about $30,000 in 1983 to over $52,000 in 2012.)
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