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Until the caps on CO2 is resolved it's unlikely you are going to find many of them if any at all. These are multi billion dollar investments that need to operate for decades before they even make profit in the best of times. Even with a resolution without long term regulatory guarantees it's a risky investment.
The caps on CO2 will not go away, it is directly related to the scientific consensus that we need to reduce overall human carbon emissions into the atmosphere in order to stop runaway temperature increases over this century. Technological improvements and other sources will easily make up the difference combined with much greater energy efficiency. It wouldn't make sense to invest in obsolete technology such as pulverized coal when the alternatives such as IGCC and other options are more expensive and not competitive with other energy sources anyway.
I can testify to that . I bought a slug of Chesapeake Energy stock (second largest natural gas producer in the US) with the idea that somewhere down the line production would be tamped down to get prices up. But the companies just kept cranking up production even at lower and lower prices to produce cash flow at the cost of profits. Not one of my better investment ideas.
I would suspect this is going to continue for some time, OPEC is doing the same thing to the oil industry. Hold onto that stock, it won't last forever.
And I'm sure in 100 years when they discover the newest form of energy it will be "What about all the windfarm technicians?"
Wind farms and solar farms will be blip on the timeline of history, geothermal, fusion of some other tech is going to bury them and fossil fuels. It will be a lot sooner than 100 years, we should pull the massive amount subsidies be given to wind and solar for production and invest it in R&D for more advanced technologies.
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The reality is the amount of coal workers as a percentage of the electorate is overstated. A good portion of the people supporting him have either retired or moved on from those jobs anyway. The idea of the coal worker waiting in stasis for coal jobs to return is ludicrous.
One thing to remember, the coal industry indirectly employs a massive amount of people in very good jobs. In particular the heavy equipment industry.
I wouldn't count on that. The EPA's regulatory authority over CO2 was won through a Supreme Court case under a law that was never intended to regulate CO2. New legislation would make that ruling moot. The energy bill passed by the House Democrats in 2009 stripped the EPA of that ability, there is Republican bills sitting on the back burner that would do the same thing. Here is Pelosi's comments on it, I'm sure they have changed since she is no longer in power.
Asked if she wants the Obama administration to address climate change through regulations if Congress fails to pass a bill this year, Pelosi responded, "It has to be done by statute."
Dream on. There is likely the 30% Fed credit on the NV installation...
Larger installations like the one you have linked too can get the PTC or production tax credit that is applied to production. This was up for renewal at the end of last year and the solar industry was claiming it would bankrupt them without it. For 2016 it's 2.3 cents per kWh.
In addition to that these producers can sell their electric at a much higher rate than market value because of mandates by the state or they can opt for the REC (renewable energy credit) that are bought by power distributors to meet mandates. In either case those costs are passed onto the ratepayer.
Nevada itself may have incentives as well....
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Face it. Solar PV is now at the break even point with minimal cleaned up coal
Whether it's competing against coal or gas there is only so much it can accomplish because of the intermittent nature of production. If you need X amount of capacity and are getting Y from solar you can't subtract Y from X. A large portion of what you pay for electric is the capital costs, when you idle a fossil fuel plant because solar is meeting that demand the cost of that electric from the fossil plant necessarily rises. You cannot eliminate the capital costs for building that fossil plant because that demand cannot be met by solar reliably. You are investing capital in two systems when one will suffice.
Last edited by thecoalman; 08-01-2016 at 05:18 AM..
Meanwhile Germany is producing too much renewable electricity and it is spilling over into other countries. They need to upgrade the grid.
Germany also has the second highest electric rates in the Western world, almost 3 times what the average is here in the US. They are right behind Denmark which has the highest percentage of electric produced by wind. The high electric rates in Germany are driven by taxes and fees used to support that renewable energy infrastructure. There is one tax specifically for renewable energy that is something like 6 cents and is almost as much as the lowest retail electric rates here in the US. The lowest rates here in the US are the Northwest where hydro domintes, the second lowest are going to be in states like Wyoming and West Virginia where coal dominates.
You won't believe it but now she's considering a carbon tax, too.
"Hillary Clinton’s campaign is leaving the door open to supporting a carbon tax, hinting that the Democratic nominee could eventually back the controversial idea. Statements from top campaign officials made during the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia could endear her to environmental activists who are pressing her to adopt more of the progressive positions of primary rival Bernie Sanders — a vocal carbon tax supporter."
More regulation! More regulation! More regulation! It's not only Clinton's way of wooing Sanders' voters but it's the way to endear Clinton even more to the big donor group - lawyers - who make a buck on complicated taxes and a lot of regulations.
Larger installations like the one you have linked too can get the PTC or production tax credit that is applied to production. This was up for renewal at the end of last year and the solar industry was claiming it would bankrupt them without it. For 2016 it's 2.3 cents per kWh.
In addition to that these producers can sell their electric at a much higher rate than market value because of mandates by the state or they can opt for the REC (renewable energy credit) that are bought by power distributors to meet mandates. In either case those costs are passed onto the ratepayer.
Nevada itself may have incentives as well....
Whether it's competing against coal or gas there is only so much it can accomplish because of the intermittent nature of production. If you need X amount of capacity and are getting Y from solar you can't subtract Y from X. A large portion of what you pay for electric is the capital costs, when you idle a fossil fuel plant because solar is meeting that demand the cost of that electric from the fossil plant necessarily rises. You cannot eliminate the capital costs for building that fossil plant because that demand cannot be met by solar reliably. You are investing capital in two systems when one will suffice.
No. PTC is for wind not solar. I agreed the Nevada installation got the 30% ITC. The PTC is also being phased out. The Middle East installation got nothing.
LCOE deals with the cost of a stream of energy and would be the criteria for new capability. As the LCOE of PV Solar gets to and below the operating cost of a coal or gas plant you still use it rather than the fossil plant. And that day is about here.
And yes you are using two systems. Which is less expensive than using the single system. And for any new capability coal will likely lose to gas because of the flexibility of gas.
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