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Old 10-15-2016, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Surprise, AZ
8,684 posts, read 10,237,847 times
Reputation: 8110

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
There is no alternative to Trump or Clinton. One of those two will be President. I can vote for someone else, but that would be a wasted vote. Inasmuch as a vote matters, votes should be used to pick the best possible candidate. There are only two candidates with a realistic shot.

Clinton lies. Trump lies. They're both politicians. Not all lies are equal, however, and I don't think we have good reason to believe Clinton is lying about holding policy positions that are more or less consistent with positions she's held her entire life.
Of course there is an alternative. There is never a wasted vote. A vote is designed for you to tell the country what your vision of government and society is or what you feel it should be. When you vote for a lesser evil, you have sold out your personal beliefs. I would rather not preserve the status quo.
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Old 10-15-2016, 02:25 PM
 
6,065 posts, read 4,295,259 times
Reputation: 7846
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZLiam View Post
Of course there is an alternative. There is never a wasted vote. A vote is designed for you to tell the country what your vision of government and society is or what you feel it should be. When you vote for a lesser evil, you have sold out your personal beliefs. I would rather not preserve the status quo.
I disagree completely. A vote is to elect a candidate. If you believe your vote counts, you should use your vote to create the best possible reality for the country. Imagine Osama bin Laden, Bernie Madoff and Abraham Lincoln were running for President, but by some weird twist of fate, bin Laden and Madoff were polling at 47% each and Lincoln had only 6%. Whom should you vote for? Lincoln is clearly the best option, but voting for Lincoln means you are not opposing bin Laden. Lincoln has no chance of winning, and even though Bernie Madoff is a terrible person, he doesn't hold a candle to bin Laden.

If you think your vote matters, you should use it to help create the best possible scenario.
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Old 10-15-2016, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Surprise, AZ
8,684 posts, read 10,237,847 times
Reputation: 8110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
I disagree completely. A vote is to elect a candidate. If you believe your vote counts, you should use your vote to create the best possible reality for the country. Imagine Osama bin Laden, Bernie Madoff and Abraham Lincoln were running for President, but by some weird twist of fate, bin Laden and Madoff were polling at 47% each and Lincoln had only 6%. Whom should you vote for? Lincoln is clearly the best option, but voting for Lincoln means you are not opposing bin Laden. Lincoln has no chance of winning, and even though Bernie Madoff is a terrible person, he doesn't hold a candle to bin Laden.

If you think your vote matters, you should use it to help create the best possible scenario.
Yes, I know you disagree completely and I am perfectly fine with that. I have come to the conclusion that we do not have much in common and that is OK too. In closing, the best possible scenario does not yet exist - breaking away from a two-party system.
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Old 10-15-2016, 02:40 PM
 
6,065 posts, read 4,295,259 times
Reputation: 7846
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZLiam View Post
Yes, I know you disagree completely and I am perfectly fine with that. I have come to the conclusion that we do not have much in common and that is OK too. In closing, the best possible scenario does not yet exist - breaking away from a two-party system.
By "possible," I mean the best scenario that could realistically occur in this election. I don't mean the best scenario we could concoct.

A two-party system is probably here to stay simply due to the dynamics of power. There would need to be enough "deal breaker" issues for groups to segregate on and stay segregated on in order for it to go away. That seems unlikely. For example, the Republican party includes people in the religious right and people who are conservative for purely fiscal reasons. They join forces under the Republican party because they are more likely to be able to gain power and actually achieve some of their objectives. That sort of incentive prevents three-party systems from arising and lasting.
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Old 10-15-2016, 06:38 PM
 
2,007 posts, read 1,282,578 times
Reputation: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by hipcat View Post
She does have a "private" and a "public" decision which changes on the current political trend.
Conversely, with Trump , what you see is what you get with him. Maybe Trump just does not have same duplicity as, not just Hillary , but a lot of politicians. He is solid in that respect, whereas others tend to revert to the glibness of the political game at every turn. It is just impossible to believe a word that comes out of Hillary's mouth. Everything and every word done for political point scoring. No rest in sight.
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Old 10-15-2016, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Pasadena, CA
9,828 posts, read 9,464,488 times
Reputation: 6288
Even Bernie would scoff at such a ridiculous question, and he's not above proposing pipe dreams to his supporters.
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