Beto O'Roarke explains his position on taking a knee, to veterans, in Houston (Putin, voters)

[loves2read]

Originally Posted by common sense solutions

The people at lunch counters wanted to be able to sit and eat their lunch like any white person. I agree that the police brutality is wrong, but I don't know what protesting the anthem solves.

The fight should be with the local governments to whom police answer. The lunch counter protests were conducted at lunch counters. Imagine if they had instead gone to a ball game, protested the anthem, and then explained that they wanted the right to eat at whites-only diners? The normal reaction would have been: huh?

The freedom riders were protesting segregated buses, so they bought bus tickets and rode, black and white together. They didn't go to a ball game and protest the anthem.

I can understand why you see a disconnect between how Civil Rights protesting was more directly tied to the actual rights that people wanted to acquire...
And I agree that there is a layer of complexity that makes it more difficult to understand why taking a knee at a football game is a valid way to protest gun violence--especially police gun violence...

But consider this--and this is just my take on it--never really read anything about why it is effective/appropriate method of protest...

Very, very often police officers and their cars carry an American flag badge or decal--
Police officers often were service men and women and have a strong respect for the flag inculcated as a part of service to the country before and after becoming a LEO...
So this way of protesting gun violence and unjustified police gun violence speaks to them probably quicker than any other form of peaceful protest--not that they are the only target audience...

Consider that football games are usually viewed in real time and capture the attention of Amercans of every walk of life, tax bracket, sexual persuasion, political affiliation, and geographical area that has tv access...
Or Internet access for those in remote or overseas locations...
It speaks to Americans and American values in ways that sports like golf or soccer don't...

Doing a protest in this way is a dramatic and effective way to reach millions of people every time a game is played and watched...
It costs nothing so it is extremely cost-efficient activism
It is non-violent
And while some might say it is disrespectful, consider that people only kneel to show deference and respect--
People kneel in church and other ceremonial occasions, kneel before kings and queens and other high officials
Kneeling in medieval times was a process of abasement and nobles knelt to their higher lords when they entered their presence as a sign of deference...

There is nothing disrespectful about taking a knee when the flag comes by except in the eyes of people who have a preconceived idea of what respecting it is...
It is ok to sew a flag on a pair of ragged jeans or print it on an shirt or a beach ball--or anything to make money--that is freedoms of speech in America

So why is taking a knee to protest gun violence and unjustified police violence such an offense to many?

I think the thing most people have a problem with is not the kneeling---when all is said and done
But what it represents---
Protesting police violence and gun violence---
But people don't want to talk about why they can't support protesting those two facts of American life
So they just don't even want to talk about WHAT is being protested and just focus on the form of protest

Personally I think those people would have just as much of a problem if people were to take a knee in front of police stations and protest police shootings of unarmed people--especially people of color...
or stand up or march to protest police shootings and gun violence
But that's just me...

And you might be interested to know the person who gave Colin Kaepernick this idea of peaceful protest was Nate Boyer, a US veteran, former Green Beret, and fellow NFL teammate. Prior to taking a knee which Boyer explained was respectful to the flag, Kaepernick had initially been sitting on the bench to protest police brutality. And Boyer--the former Army Special Forces veteran--felt taking a knee as a form of peaceful AND respectful protest was a better option...

[crone]

The Beto rally today in the Woodlands was either the worst advanced political event I have ever attended or they really did not anticipate the huge number of people who showed up. It would have been a perfect place for 2-300 people.

I would guess at least 8-900 people were there. A Texas un air condition icehouse at 1PM. It was 95 degrees. They had ceiling fans. People started lining up at noon. The event was to start at 1:30. Everybody stayed, standing. Montgomery County is one of the most Republican counties in Texas.

He made his talk. It was not a canned speech. He talked about what he had seen today and yesterday in Houston. He talked about one of the largest mental health facilities in Texas was the Harris county jail. And the needs of low income schools and how that affects all of us.

[Dane_in_LA]

Originally Posted by loves2read

This is from article in New Orleans paper that had the YouTube video of Beto and also the response of Ted Cruz--
I think the response you value the most says as much about you and your view of America as the candidates' do about theirs---

O'Rourke's opponent in the senate race, Sen. Ted Cruz, fired back, saying in a statement that O'Rourke's "perception of what is 'American' is utterly flawed."

"Comments like his are a slap in the face to every man and woman who has ever served our nation and put their lives on the line to defend American values," Cruz said

What else can Cruz say? His opponent has occupied the "sensible people can disagree" territory, Cruz can only do an appeal to emotion. Super-ego vs. id.

[crone]

Originally Posted by common sense solutions

The people at lunch counters wanted to be able to sit and eat their lunch like any white person. I agree that the police brutality is wrong, but I don't know what protesting the anthem solves.

The fight should be with the local governments to whom police answer. The lunch counter protests were conducted at lunch counters. Imagine if they had instead gone to a ball game, protested the anthem, and then explained that they wanted the right to eat at whites-only diners? The normal reaction would have been: huh?

The freedom riders were protesting segregated buses, so they bought bus tickets and rode, black and white together. They didn't go to a ball game and protest the anthem.

As a person who lived this, iMO, you need to dig a little deeper.

One plays with the hand one is dealt. People did what they needed to do back then. This is another place and time.

[RMESMH]

Originally Posted by ClaraC

I love Beto. In very right leaning Texas, he's giving Rafael Cruz a serious run for his money - such that Rafael Cruz is now having to rely on Trump's support to carry the election. Rafael needs the "get off my lawn guys" voting for him, which Trump can bring.

Does the man have no pride? Asking for support from a guy who publicly called his wife ugly, and accused his father of being involved in JFK's assassination?

Anyway, hopefully Trump will be neutered politically by the time the Nov. elections come around.

I think that part of what is going on with that is (irrespective of what anyone thinks of Senator Cruz himself) that Trump knows, deep down, that no woman like Heidi Cruz (meaning women with that much going for them) would ever give Trump the time of day.

[loves2read]

Originally Posted by common sense solutions

The people at lunch counters wanted to be able to sit and eat their lunch like any white person. I agree that the police brutality is wrong, but I don't know what protesting the anthem solves.

The fight should be with the local governments to whom police answer. The lunch counter protests were conducted at lunch counters. Imagine if they had instead gone to a ball game, protested the anthem, and then explained that they wanted the right to eat at whites-only diners? The normal reaction would have been: huh?

The freedom riders were protesting segregated buses, so they bought bus tickets and rode, black and white together. They didn't go to a ball game and protest the anthem.

Have you heard about the bus boycott in Montgomery AL?

It began after Rosa Parks (and two other women at separate times) were jailed for riding in front of the "color line" in the buses...whites sat in front of the color line and blacks had the back...
When the bus was full in the back (and more blacks than whites rode the bus because of the economics of owning a car), blacks were supposed to stand up--and at times even that was not doable because there were too many blacks standing to make room at that stop---
So the person had to wait for another bus--which could be a real hardship...

Now the bus system in Montgomery was a city-owned, tax payer supported public service--
The bus fares did not fully cover the operation/maintenance of running the system
So TAXES went toward supporting that city service--
Taxes that blacks paid just like whites...

The blacks' protested the unfair taxation w/o equal access to bus service by avoiding the bus--for a little over 12 months...that meant that many blacks walked...miles...rather than submit to an unfair system their taxes supported...after a while people in Montgomery with cars/trucks--blacks and whites--developed a ride system to help transport people who wouldn't ride the bus so they could get back and forth to work, keep their jobs, get to the doctor and other necessary trips...

The flag and the anthem represent ALL Americans---
Why is it wrong to make a peaceful protest because some Americans are not able to enjoy "life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness" when they are afraid of being shot unjustly by police???
It is a fact--it happens--
You can be a police office after 6 mo of training in many, many locations---
Takes longer to get a cosmetology license in most states---how many people are killed by bad dye jobs???

[loves2read]

Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA

What else can Cruz say? His opponent has occupied the "sensible people can disagree" territory, Cruz can only do an appeal to emotion. Super-ego vs. id.

Has Cruz ever taken the sensible people can disagree stance?

[Kibby]

Originally Posted by scottgekko

Who are you talking about? Beto never said he was taking a knee....

Exactly correct - BUT he did say that those that did were correct to do so.
He also said he would support and vote for the Impeachment of President Trump --Months ago.
He also said he was "open" to Abolishing ICE ... AND .... VOTED against any Support for ICE.

This is all on Video Tape -- it's a matter of record. I think it plays well in California (where a lot of his money comes from) - Not so sure it will play well in Texas.

even if he does his campaign events with a band -- The Presumptive Queen tried that, it failed.

[loves2read]

You didn't present a very fair summary of what he said in that speech--
I guess because the truth isn't your friend

Beto said that while HE thought it was an appropriate form of protest those who disagreed with it HAD A RIGHT TO THEIR OPINION...
Because in America we believe in freedom of speech...maybe you don't...
And he explained why he felt it was appropriate to take a knee vs stand...

You have NO IDEA where Beto's money comes from---
If you are stating his money comes from out of state then prove it with a valid source--
Not just some GOP site or your imagination
And Cruz's money is coming from PACs in addition to individuals
And Beto is not taking PAC money at all...

And if you aren'''t so sure it plays well in TX I guess you missed the latest poll....

[natalie469]

I thought his speech was excellent. I'm not sure he will beat Cruz though. Isn't Texas mostly republican. Where has Cruz been btw. We haven't heard a peep out of him in awhile.