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Old 12-26-2018, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,024,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
I wondered the same thing. I well remember McGovern's ability to fire up his base support. He was good, but Bernie was better.

Comparisons between them are very hard to make fairly, though. McGovern became the opponent of a very popular President at a time when all the anarchy that was happening was coming from within the Democratic party.

McGovern's style was never as rousing or inspiring as Bernie's is, and George was unexpectedly saddled with a VP candidate, Tom Eagleton, who had once gotten shock therapy for depression. Back then, anyone who got electroshock therapy was presumed to be violently crazy.

2016 was a very different election in a very different time. McGovern would not be seen today as being all that far left at all, just as Nixon is no longer seen as being far right.

If the 1972 election had been a a toss-up with no incumbent, I've always thought it was possible that McGovern could have won, even after Eagleton was forced to bail out. Sargent Shriver was a pretty darn good replacement, but Eagleton crippled McGovern's chances in what was already an uphill fight.

it's easy to forget just how popular Richard Nixon was in 1972. The election soon followed Nixon's triumphal trip to China just a few months earlier, and the entire nation (and the entire world) thought the U.S. detente with China was the best thing that had happened in many years. Nixon followed China up with a Russian arms agreement, and coasted all the way to a second term afterward.

Nixon was so sure he would be re-elected he didn't even bother to campaign in 1972. He spent the summer in the White House or in his San Clemente home hanging out with his best buddy Bebe Rebozo.

That's part of the reason why the Watergate break-in was so puzzling and so hard to believe for so many Americans later on.
True, the comparison is probably full of holes. Excellent points.

But I still have to wonder, if Hillary Clinton, who was center-left at best, and maybe even center-right, but lost to Trump, how are we going to beat Trump in 2020 by moving far to the left? I would allow that Bernie is a superior campaigner to Hillary.
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Old 12-26-2018, 06:27 PM
 
8,411 posts, read 7,451,894 times
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I like both of them. People tend to appreciate the less corrupt criminals in office after having a mess of a presidency under Individual 1.
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Old 12-26-2018, 06:35 PM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,380,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
True, the comparison is probably full of holes. Excellent points.

But I still have to wonder, if Hillary Clinton, who was center-left at best, and maybe even center-right, but lost to Trump, how are we going to beat Trump in 2020 by moving far to the left? I would allow that Bernie is a superior campaigner to Hillary.
It didn't matter how you labeled Hillary. She didn't lose over that. She lost because she was widely disliked regardless. One side disliked her for promoting open restrooms and the other side disliked her war mongering and selling out to Wall Street.
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Old 12-26-2018, 09:21 PM
 
754 posts, read 488,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It didn't matter how you labeled Hillary. She didn't lose over that. She lost because she was widely disliked regardless. One side disliked her for promoting open restrooms and the other side disliked her war mongering and selling out to Wall Street.
But that same side likes Joe Biden who voted to repeal glass steagall, also voted for the Iraq war and Beto, who voted to weaken Dodd Frank and supports TPP, Fracking and takes donations from AIPAC?
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Old 12-26-2018, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,636 posts, read 16,648,854 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpshooterTom View Post
But that same side likes Joe Biden who voted to repeal glass steagall, also voted for the Iraq war and Beto, who voted to weaken Dodd Frank and supports TPP, Fracking and takes donations from AIPAC?
Joe Biden did not vote to repeal Glass Steagell

He clearly voted Nay.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/106-1999/s105

What you mean to say is that Biden voted for the final resolution after Republicans compromised and put in consumer protections. The bill had already passed 54-44.
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Old 12-27-2018, 04:21 AM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,380,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpshooterTom View Post
But that same side likes Joe Biden who voted to repeal glass steagall, also voted for the Iraq war and Beto, who voted to weaken Dodd Frank and supports TPP, Fracking and takes donations from AIPAC?
We will see. (BTW, Dodd/Frank needs gone) If Biden runs and runs on carrying out the war, it will get ugly.
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Old 12-27-2018, 04:27 AM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,380,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
Joe Biden did not vote to repeal Glass Steagell

He clearly voted Nay.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/106-1999/s105

What you mean to say is that Biden voted for the final resolution after Republicans compromised and put in consumer protections. The bill had already passed 54-44.
There was no excuse for voting for it. Obviously the "protections" were window dressing.
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:08 AM
 
12,265 posts, read 6,507,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It didn't matter how you labeled Hillary. She didn't lose over that. She lost because she was widely disliked regardless. One side disliked her for promoting open restrooms and the other side disliked her war mongering and selling out to Wall Street.
She lost because of this bizarre thing called the Electoral College.
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:12 AM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,380,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
She lost because of this bizarre thing called the Electoral College.
She knew the rules. (That's what she told Bernie concerning the "Super delegates".)
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Old 12-27-2018, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,472,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
She lost because of this bizarre thing called the Electoral College.
Hillary loss because she was a bad politicians. Why can’t you see that?
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