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View Poll Results: Was Obama wrong about a segment of our population?
Yes: Nobody clings to "guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them” to work out negative emotions 21 42.86%
No: This was an accurate assessment of the spirit of many voters 28 57.14%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-14-2008, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Austin
4,100 posts, read 7,591,758 times
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I agree with James Howard Kunstler's assessment:

"Barack Obama caught hell last week for daring to tell the truth about the ragged thing that the American spirit has become. He said that small-town Pennsylvania voters, bitter over their economic circumstances, “cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them” to work out their negative emotions. He might have added that the Pope wears a funny hat (see for yourself this week), and that bears [crap] in the woods (something rural Pennsylvanians probably know). Nevertheless, in the manner lately prescribed for those who slip up and speak truthfully in public (and in contradiction to the reigning delusions), Obama was pressured to apologize for his statements."
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:04 AM
 
34,990 posts, read 35,926,660 times
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It's just so obvious! I think it was a slow news weekend.

You may want to post a less "loaded" argument on the "Yes" question btw. Maybe use Obama's own words from the same paragraph- ?
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Maine
18,555 posts, read 22,350,172 times
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"Cling to guns." ??? I'm not even sure what that means.

In desperate times, people can become bitter and look for a bogeyman, but I think Obama's remarks were pretty disingenuous and more than a little elitist.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:32 AM
 
34,990 posts, read 35,926,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
"Cling to guns." ??? I'm not even sure what that means.

In desperate times, people can become bitter and look for a bogeyman, but I think Obama's remarks were pretty disingenuous and more than a little elitist.
I honestly dont see the "elitist" angle. He said that in stressful times some people turn to God, some people go shoot other people or themselves. Well, yes they do. He said people are frustrated because they're being pounded worse and worse by circumstances beyond their control, and they're frustrated. How is this inflammatory?

Disingenuous in that he - maybe - should have been slicker, the way Hillary is, and said things like "ALL Americans," "we are all of us frustrated from sea to shining sea," etc.

He was saying they're - rather than "we're", as Hillary would've said, okay - they're angry as a result of economic decisions made by the last two adminstrations.
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Old 04-14-2008, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Maine
18,555 posts, read 22,350,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
I honestly dont see the "elitist" angle.
Obama said: "You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

I do think these remarks are rather trivial, and I'd go so far as to say that Obama probably even intended them in a spirit of compassion. But it does display an elitist attitude, that he feels that the lowly hoi polloi can't need the enlightened leader to come along and save them, and he wants to be that leader.

His heart may be in the right place, but his words do seem to hint at an awful naivete of the plight of working-class Americans.

And no, I don't think Hillary Clinton or John McCain are any better in that regard. Anyone who isn't deeply concerned about the future of our nation isn't paying attention.
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Old 04-14-2008, 12:34 PM
 
1,318 posts, read 2,268,163 times
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Hillary could have disagreed with his words but to call him an "elitist" is a joke. She is going to overplay her hand here with her $109 million dollar income. You watch and see.
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Old 04-14-2008, 12:43 PM
 
1,545 posts, read 2,109,934 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo7 View Post
Hillary could have disagreed with his words but to call him an "elitist" is a joke. She is going to overplay her hand here with her $109 million dollar income. You watch and see.

the GOP is gonna smack her with all her lies LOL
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Old 04-14-2008, 01:57 PM
 
642 posts, read 831,492 times
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Sure, some may be offended. I imagine many of us are offended and embarassed when we merely pass through some of the Appalachian areas and others as well. Old manufacturing plants and residential areas rotting away. It resembles the second world.
Is this a temporary condition? Nearly 8 yrs. of G.Wrong and 8 yrs.of "because I could" has not improved the deplorable condition. Neither did "read my lips".

Self defense is critical to our nation. What has wrecked our nation economically was ideology--not self defense. Why in more than a decade has our Gov't. had other issues and other peoples countries as the priorities?

Obama's remark that those in frustration embrace various personal preferences has merit. However, I think it could be stated that at certain times we embrace certain things much more vigorously when we are frustrated than when we are not. Guns have many qualities. Among them is a sense of empowerment and ego massaging. These emotions are very valuable to those of low esteem. Aethiests in combat have suddenly began to pray when schrapnel bounces off their helmets, as an appeal to a higher power gains importance in times of frustration.
In some areas residents drive vehicles they don't need and can't afford.Do you imagine that fool ram on the hood, that 12 mpg v-8 and the rambo driving attitude doesn't have something to do with a need for power and machismo in an otherwise dismal state of mind?
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Old 04-14-2008, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,935 posts, read 7,076,866 times
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I'll turn to God, guns, and self as opposed to faith in fascist collectivism (aka socialism). I will not bow down to the church of liberal ideology. **** off bureaucrats and get your filthy hands off my money.
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Old 04-14-2008, 03:41 PM
 
5,638 posts, read 14,413,220 times
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Why does everyone have a problem with people in small towns believing in God?

I mean, what's your explanation or proof that God does not exist? Aren't the faithful just as right to believe in something when the going gets tough? If it helps someone pull through a time of distress, then let them be.
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