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The same claim was made repeatedly during 2016 and turned out to be wrong. Sound bites/quips from last nights rally in PA will make the local news stations which is the key.
However, Trump has yet to say if he's running in 2024 and that will depend on the results this Nov.
You missed the key point of my post.
Recall that Trump barely won in 2016, it was a few thousand votes in the key states that tipped the election to him in the EC.
But this is NOT 2016. This is a post-January 6th world, and about 1/3 of Republicans refuse to accept Trump's Big Lie that he "won" in 2020. It is these Republican voters that will be the kiss of death for Trump in 2024 if he decides to run.
There are some problems with basing a campaign on a lie. It works well to harden support in the gullible and easily manipulated. But it is an insult to those that choose to think for themselves. Independents and rational anti-Big-Lie Republicans will never vote for Trump in 2024. And he needs every single vote in order to squeak out a win in 2024.
The other problem with basing a campaign on the democracy-destroying lie that Trump really "won" in 2020, is that it doesn't matter what his opponent Biden does during his first term. Attempting to overturn a certified election is a bridge too far for most normal people. Any weakness or failing of the current Administration pales in comparison to the reality that Trump attempted to thwart the will of the people on January 6th.
I keep going back to the statements that Mitch McConnell made on the evening of January 6th. One of the greatest speeches of our time. This goes to the core beliefs of the 30% of Republicans that reject Trump's lie, and for everyone else that still believes in our Constitution and the rule of law.
Mitch McConnell - January 6th following the attack on our Capitol.
"I want to say to the American people the United States Senate will not be intimidated. We will not be kept out of this chamber by thugs, mobs or threats. We will not bow to lawlessness or intimidation. We are back at our posts. We will discharge our duty under the Constitution and for our nation. And we're going to do it tonight.
This failed insurrection only underscores how crucial the task before us is for our republic. Our nation was founded precisely so that the free choice of the American people is what shapes our self-government and determines the destiny of our nation – not fear, not force, but the peaceful expression of the popular will.
Now, we assembled this afternoon to count our citizens' votes and to formalize their choice of the next president. Now we're going to finish exactly what we started. We'll complete the process the right way by the book. We'll follow our precedents, our laws and our Constitution to the letter. And we will certify the winner of the 2020 presidential election. Criminal behavior will never dominate the United States Congress.
This institution is resilient. Our democratic republic is strong.
Not surprised at all considering what Trump has been doing. In my long life I have only voted for one democrat and he was a state senator who served in a time when politicians cared about all the residents of their districts. But for the first time in my life I may be voting either independent or for the left. No longer will I waste a vote on Trump or any mini Trump. Our party has blown it and I worry it may never recover. Now I'll sit back and watch the insults fly and how some of us cannot handle a few mean tweets from Trump. Some are just special enough to really believe that's all Trump is guilty of.
Independent voters are now leaning toward Democrats in the 2022 midterm elections: WSJ poll
John L. Dorman 4 hours ago
I daresay you are among the 30% of Republicans that reject Trump's Big Lie. This is what I keep repeating, the strategy of basing a campaign on a lie, particularly one that has the risk of irretrievably damaging our Republic, is a problem for Trump. It is an insult to anyone that dares to engage their brain.
Recall that Trump barely won in 2016, it was a few thousand votes in the key states that tipped the election to him in the EC.
But this is NOT 2016. This is a post-January 6th world, and about 1/3 of Republicans refuse to accept Trump's Big Lie that he "won" in 2020. It is these Republican voters that will be the kiss of death for Trump in 2024 if he decides to run.
There are some problems with basing a campaign on a lie. It works well to harden support in the gullible and easily manipulated. But it is an insult to those that choose to think for themselves. Independents and rational anti-Big-Lie Republicans will never vote for Trump in 2024. And he needs every single vote in order to squeak out a win in 2024.
The other problem with basing a campaign on the democracy-destroying lie that Trump really "won" in 2020, is that it doesn't matter what his opponent Biden does during his first term. Attempting to overturn a certified election is a bridge too far for most normal people. Any weakness or failing of the current Administration pales in comparison to the reality that Trump attempted to thwart the will of the people on January 6th.
I keep going back to the statements that Mitch McConnell made on the evening of January 6th. One of the greatest speeches of our time. This goes to the core beliefs of the 30% of Republicans that reject Trump's lie, and for everyone else that still believes in our Constitution and the rule of law.
Mitch McConnell - January 6th following the attack on our Capitol.
"I want to say to the American people the United States Senate will not be intimidated. We will not be kept out of this chamber by thugs, mobs or threats. We will not bow to lawlessness or intimidation. We are back at our posts. We will discharge our duty under the Constitution and for our nation. And we're going to do it tonight.
This failed insurrection only underscores how crucial the task before us is for our republic. Our nation was founded precisely so that the free choice of the American people is what shapes our self-government and determines the destiny of our nation – not fear, not force, but the peaceful expression of the popular will.
Now, we assembled this afternoon to count our citizens' votes and to formalize their choice of the next president. Now we're going to finish exactly what we started. We'll complete the process the right way by the book. We'll follow our precedents, our laws and our Constitution to the letter. And we will certify the winner of the 2020 presidential election. Criminal behavior will never dominate the United States Congress.
This institution is resilient. Our democratic republic is strong.
The American people deserve nothing less."
You're saying because 30% of Rep. voters don't support the "Big Lie" Trump has no chance of winning. That said Rep voters will vote either Dem or perhaps not vote for either presidential candidate. (Or maybe 3rd party.)
But you can also argue while they may not approve of Trump's "Stop the Steal" rhetoric the alternative is worse: Another four years of Biden. And I'm sure many independents feel the same. They broke for Trump in 2016 and could do so again in 2024.
The last two elections have torn this country apart and disagreements getting uglier. Hopefully this Nov. the voting and the vote count will run smooth. After Nov. we'll know if Trump is running or not.
So which lies you are willing to live with? Iraq WMD, the true definition of torture, that voting I.D. laws are Jim Crow on steroids, the definition of recession, the vaccine will prevent you getting the virus or spreading it, that the huge inflation bill has to do about lowering inflation, that the #1 threat to our Democracy are the 75 million Trump voters, that the S.C. illegally put a President in the W.H. , That Russia changed the outcome of the 2016 elections, that We need to fight in endless wars to defend our democracy. Those lies you can live with, I guess.
Biden has been telling lies while getting richer since 1973 so I don't have the time to list all his lies like the one he said in the primaries in 2020 that he was arrested with Nelson Mandela. That lie is not up there with Obama birtherism? I guess We have 2 standards of lying. It's not the lie, it's how you lie.
I'm sure many people that voted for Biden in 2020 because of the pandemic and the 2k checks for everybody will not vote for him again after their bank accounts are lighter and their lives more expensive.
I guess We will have to wait and see in 2024 if the people of PA ,WI, AZ and GA (whoever takes 3 out of those 4 states wins) that barely went with Biden will go for him again. We have to wait in 2 years and the GOP congress levels the playing field by finally going after Biden's corruptions that the media and DOJ have ignored. Come back in 2 years.
Lol. Yes, Biden has lied about his personal accomplishments in the past. I never said he was a saint. He's a politician and it's impossible to be both. However, the vast majority of the things you listed in your first paragraph, frankly, either aren't true or weren't said by Biden himself.
However, Trump has also lied about his personal accomplishments in the past.
And his taxes.
And his associations.
And his crowd sizes.
And these documents.
And numerous other easily provable categories of lie. Repeatedly. Bald-faced, intelligence-insulting lies. Whoppers.
But in my personal opinion, nothing comes close to lying about a man's religion and origin, a lie based on xenophobia, religious discrimination, and racism, for personal political gain. Thats one of the lowest things a person can do and shows a complete lack of character.
If there's a better choice than Biden or Trump I'd certainly take it. Perhaps we should pressure congress to implement RCV so that voters like me tired of both D's and R's would potentially have better choices in presidential elections.
But of course the partisans on both sides will kick and scream with any whiff of threat to their power.
Lol. Yes, Biden has lied about his personal accomplishments in the past. I never said he was a saint. He's a politician and it's impossible to be both. However, the vast majority of the things you listed in your first paragraph, frankly, either aren't true or weren't said by Biden himself.
However, Trump has also lied about his personal accomplishments in the past.
And his taxes.
And his associations.
And his crowd sizes.
And these documents.
And numerous other easily provable categories of lie. Repeatedly. Bald-faced, intelligence-insulting lies. Whoppers.
But in my personal opinion, nothing comes close to lying about a man's religion and origin, a lie based on xenophobia, religious discrimination, and racism, for personal political gain. Thats one of the lowest things a person can do and shows a complete lack of character.
If there's a better choice than Biden or Trump I'd certainly take it. Perhaps we should pressure congress to implement RCV so that voters like me tired of both D's and R's would potentially have better choices in presidential elections.
But of course the partisans on both sides will kick and scream with any whiff of threat to their power.
But if those are the two choices I'll go with Trump. I voted for him in 2016 (although I never expected he would win...) because of the USSC. I voted for him again in 2020 because I liked the job he was doing.
I'm not throwing my vote away on a 3rd party candidate. If Trump runs again he's got my vote.
I daresay you are among the 30% of Republicans that reject Trump's Big Lie. This is what I keep repeating, the strategy of basing a campaign on a lie, particularly one that has the risk of irretrievably damaging our Republic, is a problem for Trump. It is an insult to anyone that dares to engage their brain.
What is this? I understand Biden's big lies - there are many of them/
DeSantis did not go off the grid while people went into the Capitol building chanting “Hang Mike Pence” with a set of gallows, complete with nooses, nearby.
In 2024 I will vote Republican, whichever one gets the nomination, except for one person - Donald Trump. I will never vote for him and I am not alone.
I agree I will right in Reagan from the grave lol. Something has to stop the democrats nutty policies. Trump is not the guy PERIOD!/ Trumps hardcore base does not care if we lose though and the GOP needs to wake up to that
I am an independent and do not support the Democrats after this debacle of an administration. I voted for Trump but hope he doesn't run because the Democrats will just ramp up the BS all over again. He needs to keep them guessing and then not run, after they focus all their hatred and lies on him.
DeSantis did not go off the grid while people went into the Capitol building chanting “Hang Mike Pence” with a set of gallows, complete with nooses, nearby.
In 2024 I will vote Republican, whichever one gets the nomination, except for one person - Donald Trump. I will never vote for him and I am not alone.
You mean the small, poorly built model of a gallows that even the NY Times admits was not suitable for actual use and nobody knows who actually built it? It was also set up several football fields away, so I would argue with your characterization that it was nearby, but you do you, Oldhag.
As for the poll, it was 1300 or so registered voters, not likely voters, and fully taken before Labor Day. Call me in a month if a poll of likely voters says the same thing, then the OP might be on to something.
The poll was the third week of August with the abortion ruling still fresh on voters minds. So many polls many of which are dependent on the demographics of those surveyed. Also asking registered voters or radom people who would they vote for might illicit different answers.
Another poll/survery
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