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Old 10-03-2008, 01:45 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,861,612 times
Reputation: 14345

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lola8822 View Post
lol.....that's what happens when you get to the bottom of the barrel! ohhhh sooo funny to hear but sooooo sad to see.
Was that supposed to be a substantive remark? Did it add anything thoughtful to this thread?

Here's a thoughtful assessment of how Sarah did. She was composed, and made sure she made all of her talking points. She managed to convey a nice level of warmth. She may have overdone it on the folksy side, (doggone it!), but overall she seemed responsive and charming.

Biden didn't hit his stride until the last half of the debate. He seemed remote to begin with, but his grasp of the facts, his knowledge of how he, McCain and Obama voted on various issues, gave him the upper hand in the debate. Once he became involved in the debate, he seemed much more articulate about the questions, though he became emotional at one point, the basis of that emotional moment can be understood.

Overall, if you score the debate traditionally, in terms of knowledge of the matters at hand, and the ability to accurately articulate a specific position, then Biden wins. However, political debates are not simple high school debates. They are forums for political persuasion. Governor Palin regained some of her authority in this race, and possibly that may translate into momentum for McCain's race. So in that sense, this debate was a win for her. Biden represents the candidate currently in the lead, so his performance, the credibility and authority he brought to the debate, without any major gaffes, makes this a win for him as well.
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Old 10-03-2008, 03:19 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,946,110 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Was that supposed to be a substantive remark? Did it add anything thoughtful to this thread?

Here's a thoughtful assessment of how Sarah did. She was composed, and made sure she made all of her talking points. She managed to convey a nice level of warmth. She may have overdone it on the folksy side, (doggone it!), but overall she seemed responsive and charming.

Biden didn't hit his stride until the last half of the debate. He seemed remote to begin with, but his grasp of the facts, his knowledge of how he, McCain and Obama voted on various issues, gave him the upper hand in the debate. Once he became involved in the debate, he seemed much more articulate about the questions, though he became emotional at one point, the basis of that emotional moment can be understood.

Overall, if you score the debate traditionally, in terms of knowledge of the matters at hand, and the ability to accurately articulate a specific position, then Biden wins. However, political debates are not simple high school debates. They are forums for political persuasion. Governor Palin regained some of her authority in this race, and possibly that may translate into momentum for McCain's race. So in that sense, this debate was a win for her. Biden represents the candidate currently in the lead, so his performance, the credibility and authority he brought to the debate, without any major gaffes, makes this a win for him as well.
Though if we are scoring on knowledge DC, we have to apply fact checking after and then re-evaluate. Both made some blunders, but Biden in some of his strong points where he called out facts and looked like he controlled the information was actually incorrect in them. So at that point, you have to weight in a bit and you can't hand it on over to him for that.

They both did well, and I think to be TRULY honest, I would have to say it was a tie combining all the factors. That to be honest, speaks better for Palin than it does for Biden obviously.
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Old 10-03-2008, 03:26 PM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,861,612 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
Though if we are scoring on knowledge DC, we have to apply fact checking after and then re-evaluate. Both made some blunders, but Biden in some of his strong points where he called out facts and looked like he controlled the information was actually incorrect in them. So at that point, you have to weight in a bit and you can't hand it on over to him for that.

They both did well, and I think to be TRULY honest, I would have to say it was a tie combining all the factors. That to be honest, speaks better for Palin than it does for Biden obviously.
Thank you for your thoughtful answer. I've reviewed the fact check links at both ABC and FOX, and they both had factual errors. But Biden made many more factual claims, while Palin stuck to generalizations. Percentage-wise, Palin's misrepresentations outnumber Biden, so I'm going to stick to my statement that if you evaluate this debate by traditional debate criteria, Biden won. But since this was a political debate, it wasn't just about facts, and both did quite well, so they both achieved their goals and that's a win (better than a tie) for both.

I'd also like to note that there was an atmosphere of cordiality at this debate that was absent from the Presidential debate. It was very nice to see the two families smiling and chatting afterwards, which is how partisan politics should work, all business when business is on the agenda, but when the business is concluded, an opportunity to really make connections.
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Old 10-03-2008, 04:59 PM
 
1,868 posts, read 5,680,464 times
Reputation: 536
Quote:
Originally Posted by KLDanford View Post
This is an embarrassingly ignorant post.
So, just because you think she "connected" to people, that we need more people like her in washington? SURE it'd be a change in washington alright! I think it would be akin to Paris Hilton and Nicole Ritchie taking over Congress.
IT IS NOT SMART on your part to support a candidate because you think they are like you or that you'd 'like to have a beer with them."
That is called voting STYLE rather than substance. It's how Bush was elected. And look where he got us.
I connect with my next door neighbor, and I like her. But that DOES NOT MEAN she is qualified to be 2nd in line to the Presidency.

It depresses me when people like you admit your reasons for supporting an idiot like Palin. Makes me worry for the future of our country.
I couldn't agree more! It's a disgusting attitude....shameful really!!
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Old 10-03-2008, 06:41 PM
 
Location: NE Atlanta Metro
3,197 posts, read 5,372,669 times
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The debate was like watching Michael Phelps (Biden) swimming against a special olympics athlete (Palin). He lapped his competitor a few times, but people had a warm fuzzy feeling because the special olympian made the finish line.
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Old 10-03-2008, 06:50 PM
 
101 posts, read 180,701 times
Reputation: 22
Well I have to agree with the thread starter! She has only five weeks of experience compared to 30 some years of Biden's, and she gave him a run for his money! I loved the way Biden had to correct himself when he says he knows about the middle class from his neighborhood.....he HAD to comeback to this topic and say his "OLD" neighborhood! Also for a person with 30 some years of experience I believe we should have tolerated ZERO factual errors from his mouth/ (WHILE HE SAID 10 THINGS THAT WERE DEAD WRONG) ........My 2 cents are rooting for Palin to show the world just like Reagan..that the old Professorial mentality and monotone tone doesn't really CHANGE minds! An that her lack of long term experience can give her an edge if facing with modern problems. But the fact remains that she has more experience than Obama!!
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Old 10-03-2008, 06:50 PM
 
Location: "The Sunshine State"
4,334 posts, read 13,657,508 times
Reputation: 3064
Biden won, no doubt. Palin is dumb and phoney and made funny faces! Cannot wait to see SNL this weekend.
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Old 10-03-2008, 07:19 PM
 
13,053 posts, read 12,946,110 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Thank you for your thoughtful answer. I've reviewed the fact check links at both ABC and FOX, and they both had factual errors. But Biden made many more factual claims, while Palin stuck to generalizations. Percentage-wise, Palin's misrepresentations outnumber Biden, so I'm going to stick to my statement that if you evaluate this debate by traditional debate criteria, Biden won. But since this was a political debate, it wasn't just about facts, and both did quite well, so they both achieved their goals and that's a win (better than a tie) for both.

I'd also like to note that there was an atmosphere of cordiality at this debate that was absent from the Presidential debate. It was very nice to see the two families smiling and chatting afterwards, which is how partisan politics should work, all business when business is on the agenda, but when the business is concluded, an opportunity to really make connections.
Thats the point though, if facts were all that mattered, then that would be all we need. The point I was making is that the "facts" he made at the times he seemed to be the strongest (when he countered and stood firm on his claims) also happened to be the times where he was not telling the facts.

We have to consider that into the equation as well, because those are the times people really took notice, really perked up and thought he was doing well. That is the point I was making.
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Old 10-03-2008, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Southeast Alaska
2,048 posts, read 3,807,220 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by smd1998 View Post
I called it earlier, she touched middle class and he did not.

She impressed me and even Joe Biden was impressed with her.

I will get into it more later but she did a fabulous job.

If you are all honest you will see that she can perform and did a fantastic job!

Way to go Sarah!

You won this debate.

you must have been tuned into the Cartoon Channel....[MOD CUT/prsonal attack]

Last edited by Ibginnie; 10-03-2008 at 11:09 PM..
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:41 PM
 
2,039 posts, read 6,321,556 times
Reputation: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by lola8822 View Post
Really??? Because I thought it was a clear victory for Pailin.....Biden just smiled the entire time probably saying to himself "ohhh crapy how do I defend that one??" lol.....she had so many knock outs in this last round......Loves it!!!!
Hey Lola, I heard you're really someone who's working inside the Palin/mccain camp.
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