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I don't see how anybody can still, in today's modern society, see the appeal of the obviously masturbatory process of presidential voting.
There seems to be some ideology and fantastical belief that somehow, our individual vote counts, in any way at all, in swaying the odds to directly affect the outcome. Folks, if you believe this, please do me a favor and pull your head out of your ass.
Eight years ago, George W. Bush was elected as the 43rd president of the United States of America, beating Al Gore and whoever else ran that year (you know, the guys the media doesn't tell you about). How is this possible, considering Gore gathered over 540,000 more popular votes than Bush?
The electoral vote. You know, from the "state-appointed party-affiliated electors" for the US presidential candidate who has won a majority of the popular vote in that state. Bush won the electoral vote 271-266. So, despite a majority of popular votes going to Gore, Bush gets in. And we all know how well that worked out.*
But that wasn't the only instance of popular votes meaning basically nothing. Benjamin Harrison received 233 electoral votes to Grover Cleveland's 168, winning the presidency. But Harrison lost the popular vote by more than 90,000 votes. Before that, Rutherford B. Hayes won the election (by a margin of one electoral vote), but he lost the popular vote by more than 250,000 ballots to Samuel J. Tilden.
And somehow, in 1824, John Quincy Adams lost both the popular vote (by 38,000 votes) AND the electoral vote (99-84). Andrew Jackson was the winner in both categories, but John Quincy Adams was elected president. Figure that one out.
The system is flawed. It always has been.
All this nonsense about electoral votes, electoral college, red states, blue states, winning states, swing states, republican, democrat, green party, left wing, right wing...only exists to complicate the process and create excuses as to why a candidate can gather more overall votes and not win the election.
The next president is already chosen. Whoever the higher-ups want in will get in, regardless of what we want and how we vote. I don't know who will win and I frankly don't give two ****s. Just keep this in mind if you decide to waste precious moments of your life by voting: election day has a higher percentage of traffic accidents AND fatalities resulting from such accidents than any other day.
Exercise your right NOT to vote.
I think the late, great George Carlin said it the best:
* I'm kind of glad that we didn't end up with a president who believes that human beings are causing the temperature of the Earth to rise. Hey Al, care to explain to me how the Ice Age 10,000 years ago ended, and the 6 before that?
The electoral college isn't perfect, but you failed to suggest an alternative. And please don't say it should just be based on the popular vote as that has even more flaws.
The electoral college isn't perfect, but you failed to suggest an alternative. And please don't say it should just be based on the popular vote as that has even more flaws.
Your vote does count. Go vote!
Why would a popular vote, for the Presidency, be flawed? Aside from concerns about Mickey Mouse getting elected, etc, I am curious as to your concerns. Seriously. As for other alternatives why not proportional representation of the electoral college based on the popular vote within each state? Much of the Democratic primary was done this way. That way in a Democratic enclave like California Republicans would view their vote as actually mattering on a national level. Open to all polite debate.
The electoral college isn't perfect, but you failed to suggest an alternative.
I'm simply trying to educate those who believe they live in a perfect world. I'm not a miracle-worker. I know that something is wrong, but most people don't. Maybe someone will come up with something if they actually opened their eyes to reality instead of the media.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrprofess
Why would a popular vote, for the Presidency, be flawed?
Because it becomes just that: a popularity contest. Plus the fact that Leroy Schmidt from the backwoods of Alabama has, in addition to his three teeth, a couch on his lawn, a wife who's also his sister, and less of an understanding of politics than my dog's chew toys...he has the right to vote.
[quote=Falconer84;5985613]I'm simply trying to educate those who believe they live in a perfect world. I'm not a miracle-worker. I know that something is wrong, but most people don't. Maybe someone will come up with something if they actually opened their eyes to reality instead of the media.
Because it becomes just that: a popularity contest. Plus the fact that Leroy Schmidt from the backwoods of Alabama has, in addition to his three teeth, a couch on his lawn, a wife who's also his sister, and less of an understanding of politics than my dog's chew toys...he has the right to vote.
Do you really want HIS vote to count?[/quote]
You can't play that game in a democracy. All votes count, of legal age, or they do not. It would be impossible to determine who's vote should count. I would take your last scenario over an election where the popular vote winner is the loser...why not a proportional electoral vote then?
I don't see how anybody can still, in today's modern society, see the appeal of the obviously masturbatory process of presidential voting.
There seems to be some ideology and fantastical belief that somehow, our individual vote counts, in any way at all, in swaying the odds to directly affect the outcome. Folks, if you believe this, please do me a favor and pull your head out of your ass.
I am all in favor of ending our electoral college, especially in this day in age.
However, while I understand where the cynicism arises from in most people folks and there is some truth to it, but it is a self fulfilling prophecy. After all, I wish everyone wouldn't vote except for me.
Imagine if you were a soldier storming the beaches at Normandy and you said to yourself, 'if I ran away it wouldn't matter one bit as to the outcome of this war' and you would be right. However if every soldier thought this then we might all be speaking German. Maybe it is your duty to die, to take a bullet for the guy next to you so that he can kill one of the enemy.
I see this as trying to apply an economic type principle to politics where when you do simple math, no one voter means much but collectively they do. I also think it is a flawed way of looking at things. (unless of course everyone decides not to except for me)
You can't play that game in a democracy. All votes count, of legal age, or they do not. It would be impossible to determine who's vote should count.
Yet the electoral system decides that only certain votes in certain states count.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TnHilltopper
Imagine if you were a soldier storming the beaches at Normandy and you said to yourself, 'if I ran away it wouldn't matter one bit as to the outcome of this war' and you would be right. However if every soldier thought this then we might all be speaking German. Maybe it is your duty to die, to take a bullet for the guy next to you so that he can kill one of the enemy.
I think this is an unfair comparison when you consider the consequences of not fighting in a war are far greater than not voting.
Nobody has the duty to do anything.
If you want to vote, go for it. Knock yourself out. I just want people to realize that they are not accomplishing much when they do.
People need to open their eyes to the world around them and see how things work, and question them when they don't, instead of accepting everything at face value.
Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control.
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