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As for God: God has nothing to do with American elections.
This is a political forum and not the Christian thread so won't post the numerous scriptural references that would prove your statement completely wrong, but it would be futile I do believe.
This is a political forum and not the Christian thread so won't post the numerous scriptural references that would prove your statement completely wrong, but it would be futile I do believe.
So we will just agree to disagree on that point.
Scriptural references in reference to an American political situation are irrelevant to me, so yes we will just agree to disagree on that point.
Did you not read the post? I have voted for conservatives and have been disappointed that they haven't governed conservatively. I don't believe McCain is what I want either, too centrist. I really am more libertarian when it comes to the federal government, but don't see the libertarian party as a viable alternative at the present time.
Yes, the current Republican president COUPLED WITH A DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS has come up with the most bloated government in years. So, what would you have me do, vote for the most liberal to the left candidate the democrats have offered since McGovern? Not a personal attack, just a plain observation of positions.
How is pointing out that the opposition is far left to the point of leaning toward socialism equated with hate and fear mongering? Calling McCain and his campaign hate filled and fear mongering is doing the same yourself.
Sorry, don't see Obama as qualified. Hilary or Biden would be more qualified in my thinking, but it is the platform and direction that I am voting both for and against.
So, the platform I would like to see is not available to me in this election, therefore I am voting against a far left platform and am voting for one more center/right when I would prefer one more solidly right.
There has only been a Democratic Congress for 2 of the past 8 years.
Obama is not "far left." The idea is laughable. McCain is absolutely "solidly right." Sorry.
Selfish pride can be defined as "excessive confidence or glorification in one's self, possessions or nation." The concept is found in The Bible, along with pride itself, in words such as arrogance, haughtiness and conceit, among others, all of which are opposite of Godly humility. The wrongness of self-centered pride is essentially twofold. On a spiritual level, it inevitably leads to disregard, disrespect and disobedience to God i.e. self-centered pride is primarily what transformed the once-righteous Lucifer into the wicked Satan after he became too impressed with himself: "I will make myself like the Most High" (Isaiah 14:14 RSV, see also Born To Be Wild?). On a worldly level, selfish pride very often results in self-destructive behavior because, while a form of self-delusion, it isn't necessarily as much an overestimation of one's self as it is a dangerous underestimation of others, hence "Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" (Proverbs 16:18 RSV). The Bible also speaks of a good pride, but it differs greatly from selfish pride.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,088,557 times
Reputation: 36028
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward
That is NOT what it means:
To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
(signed) Thomas Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.
Please note therein:
"Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion"
This means that Congress must not pass any acts which introduce secular law "respective" of religious beliefs.
This is a letter that Jefferson wrote to a church. The concept of "separation of church and state" is not found in our constitution.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,088,557 times
Reputation: 36028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks
Haven't finished reading the entire thread, but had to wade through dozens of inane posts to finally find a sane reply. Well spoken, Janeann.
Whatever happened to voting for a platform, for ideals, for overall direction to the left or the right? Why so much invested in personality? And why the need to visciously attack the person you don't agree with? Am I one of the few adults here and have stumbled onto a political forum with adolescents?
I respect Obama for rising from a humble and adverse homelife and how he bettered himself with education, with community service, with his ability to run a well organized campaign.
I respect McCain for his service to his country, for his ability to not only survive but thrive in a prisoner of war experience that would have done most of us in completely, for his ability to work in the senate in a non partisan way at times and to go against the party line when he saw fit.
However, I vote for McCain because I believe that the change this country needs is a fine tuning and a return to more conservative, if not libertarian ideals. Is he my prime candidate to do this? No, I feel he is still too centrist for what would really help this country. I have voted for conservative candidates in vain, I must say, as no one has really taken office and tackled the huge vast blundering bureacracy that is our federal government and trimmed it down. Will he be what I really want? No, but he is better than the alternative.
I will not vote against Obama because of anything personal. I don't think he is qualified, don't think he has been tested, but that really is not why I won't vote for him. I wouldn't vote for Biden or Hilary if they were at the top of the ticket. And not for any personal things that might come to mind, they both seem like good people and would not be where they are today without smarts and leadership qualities.
However, the democratic party is too liberal for me. The love of big government and inherent love to tax and spend that typifies the democratic party are why I will not vote for them. It is not in this country's best interest in my opinion.
I don't think the original post has any revelance to either candidate. It is the Word of God, but don't see that it is applicable. All of us have pride that we need to deal with, I am sure that both Obama and McCain have a measure of humility and both have areas of pride for which they need to repent, simply because they are both human and it is a weakness in the human nature. But I don't see it is the hallmark of either one of them.
Please, people, vote for platform and ideals. If you are liberal, so be it. But be honest and vote for the platform and take the vicious personal attack for the opposition out of the equation, now that it is time to get down and vote. Same goes to you fellow conservatives on my side of the aisle.
May God's will be done, may his Kingdom come in this election process.
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