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I am amazed. For the most part, this has been a very civilized, somewhat intellegent thread throughout. Surprising for this forum, lately. Good job people. I hope I didn't jinx it.
I was about to post the same thing after having read this thread. Wish the majority of threads in this forum were more like this.
I don't know about the rest of you folks but after seeing the manner and tone of Obama after being briefed on the economic conditions, I'm concerned, deeply. The days of his looking at the world through the scope of a writer of laws to an executor of them have fallen like a ton of bricks.
I have this sense that you feel Obama will be more liberal or true to this characterization of him and you very well may be right. While at this point we are talking a lot of speculation, and I have a sense that if the nation were in a more sound state, that we would see a more liberal Obama. I'm just going to have to disagree that this aspect of him will be present in his first two years due to the state of the nation he is inheriting. I base this on nothing but opinion, feeling, and a handful or articles of folks who tend to agree with my position and who don't really know either.
You are correct in my view of Obama. As you stated, he is now confronting the aspect of having to actually make decisions, as opposed to being more "philosophical" in his sentiment until now. My suspicion is that he will make statements that indicate a moderate or centrist perspective on policy direction, but when the stuff is actually cobbled together (the legislative process is positively hideous) you will find he ultimately approves decisions that will be very traditionally liberal.
I think you will also find our current difficult predicament will actually accelerate his tendency towards liberal decisionmaking, especially in the area of taxation, financial redistribution and potential means testing for benefits.
You are correct in my view of Obama. As you stated, he is now confronting the aspect of having to actually make decisions, as opposed to being more "philosophical" in his sentiment until now. My suspicion is that he will make statements that indicate a moderate or centrist perspective on policy direction, but when the stuff is actually cobbled together (the legislative process is positively hideous) you will find he ultimately approves decisions that will be very traditionally liberal.
I think you will also find our current difficult predicament will actually accelerate his tendency towards liberal decision making, especially in the area of taxation, financial redistribution and potential means testing for benefits.
Considering Obama is no conservative but in comparison to our current administration and the other viable alternatives offered, he very well may have been. Which says something of interest about Obama but says something even greater about where our political 50 yard line is today.
We had a Goldwater, a Buckley, a Nixon, a Powell, to name just a few of the more traditional conservatives who endorsed Obama and certainly didn't do so because they thought he was a liberal or would govern as such. This was not a case of a few isolated incidents this election cycle, it was a fairly clear message by traditional conservatives that the party has come off its tracks.
There was an interesting piece over at the Slate that spoke of contemporary Republicans adopting the liberal "special-interest" tradition for their own.
Instead, Republicans have gleefully taken possession of the old liberal spoils system and converted it to their own purposes. The result is the curious governing philosophy of interest-group conservatism: the expansion and exploitation of government by people who profess to dislike it.
The moving into the issue of progressive and expansionist views of government that were also traditionally the realm of the more liberal mindset, we only to look out on the landscape today to see expansion on a massive scale.
According to the Wall Street Journal, “number of full-time employees working on government contracts and grants has zoomed by more than one million people since 1999, bringing the overall head count to more than 12.1 million
The report finds that the growth is happening entirely outside traditional civil-service hiring channels. "The Bush administration is overseeing a vast expansion of the largely hidden federal work force of contractors and grantees," according to Paul Light, the author of the report, who directs the Center for Public Service at Brookings.
As to wealth distribution, we could use some humor, while a dark humor, and point out that the Bush tax cuts, economic retraction, and the rising unemployment rates have contributed to over 240,000 newly unemployed people who the government now pays unemployment compensation to. So in that sense Bush is really spreading the wealth around.
Not only did the economy lose a massive 240,000 jobs in the non-farm sector, but the previously reported declines of 159,000 in September and 73,000 in August were revised sharply lower to 284,000 and 127,000 respectively as well. As a result, the economy has now lost a total of 1.2 million jobs since the beginning of the year, with nearly half of those losses occurring in the last three months alone, pointing to an acceleration in the pace of erosion in labor markets.
Those foundational aspects of traditional conservatism have all but vanished from the political landscape. The promise of no new nation building, gone in an instant. The idea of any fiscal responsibility, nonexistent. As far as moral high ground, I will let folks wrestle in their own minds of the morality of the Iraq war and subsequent occupation, but when it comes to the notion of borrowing from tomorrows generation in order to cover today's spending, no one will ever convince me that this is a moral thing to do.
Now Obama may very well take to a more liberal version of wealth redistribution, but in today's climate, I think you will find a very difficult argument with a man on the street when asked what they think of this.
When I look at this chart to see how taxes have been applied in our past, as well as considering cost of living verses wages, it boggles my mind that some, excluding yourself, would consider this socialist. Under such a premise as socialist or "spreading the wealth", then I must ask what are peoples sentiments towards Reagan, Nixon, and Eisenhower are. History of Federal Individual Income Bottom and Top Bracket Rates
NTC, while we might disagree in our predictions, I came across this piece by a reader over at Andrew (the whiner) Sullivan's Daily Dish, that was an interesting perspective on it. The readers opinion that Obama is a liberal with a more conservative and cautious approach to problems. Anyway, it was actually better than some of Sullivan's stuff of late.
Anything would be better than any of the recent Sullivan stuff, but I digress...
While I understand the valid potential sentiments of both sides of the discussion, I always like to take things back to specific policy decisions, so it makes it easier to evaluate. I'll offer one up for starters right here, oil drilling off shore and in Alaska. My view is that if he has a "Pelosi liberal" heart, he will champion drilling restrictions that would be so impractical it would be unable to economically happen, despite his comment that he doesn't oppose off shore oil drilling.
I'll also offer up a second policy issue, nuclear power plant construction. If he is a "Pelosi liberal" he will also offer up processes that will make this impractical in the USA.
Actually energy concerns are one of the areas I expect him to cave into public pressure. America demands cheap energy and if that means drilling in Alaska or off the coast of St. Petersburg, Florida to do it. The nuclear power issue is a toss up, as even with an easing of current regulations, they are extremely costly to build and maintain as well as that little issue of what to do with the left over waste that no wants in their back yard. However, I cannot say for sure as I have read much on nuclear power development and where Obama stands on this.
I suspect a true sense of the President elect will not occur until the first use of the veto pen, and how well he lives up to the promise of review and repeal of the expansion of executive privileges instituted under the current Administration...
Actually energy concerns are one of the areas I expect him to cave into public pressure. America demands cheap energy and if that means drilling in Alaska or off the coast of St. Petersburg, Florida to do it. The nuclear power issue is a toss up, as even with an easing of current regulations, they are extremely costly to build and maintain as well as that little issue of what to do with the left over waste that no wants in their back yard. However, I cannot say for sure as I have read much on nuclear power development and where Obama stands on this.
This will be an interesting battle since the Senator submitted a Bill to go after the royalty money and subsequently, problems (sex and such) were exposed in the office of oversight in this matter...we'll see how successful he is since there will be a changing of the guard. From what we know now, noones been collecting the money and they certainly haven't been paying.
I suspect a true sense of the President elect will not occur until the first use of the veto pen, and how well he lives up to the promise of review and repeal of the expansion of executive privileges instituted under the current Administration...
I have warned for years about the consolidation of power into the Executive as one day, Bush and Co. will no longer be sitting in the big chair. Then this power that has been gathered will end up in the hands of someone from an oppositional view point.
Add to this a Democratic majority, and you then negate much of the need for signing statements and executive orders. Maybe Democrats will do a much better job, maybe they won't but when offered up so much power and influence, it is hard to see how this wouldn't lead to a propensity to use said powers to do the wrong thing for the right reasons.
Obama's commitment to the missile defense shield is just the first example of a break from the far left. Although I can almost see Biden's hand here. Hasn't been a week and I bet the anti-war crowd is already slack jawed.
While flipping through channels I came across a story about how left wing bloggers in the blogosphere and large numbers of liberals are starting to jump up and down frothing at the mouth over Obama's cabinet picks.
My oh my... It seems all those many stories about how the socialist spreader of wealth closet Muslim boogyman was going to destroy America by taking up with every pointy-headed coastal liberal cause and, and... and...
Sorry, doesn't look like that is what is taking place and I am starting to get this feeling that, well, I nailed this one.
Whats next Obama, going to offer a job to Pat Buchanan? (chuckling)
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