What if Obama were born in Kenya...would it (illegal, Barack Hussein Obama, rating)

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Kooter

It does not really matter if Obama was born in Hawaii or Kenya or Mars, though it would be very interesting to know what his vault birth certificate says. However, Obama is willing to hire three law firms and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to fight the Court and Justice System to stop the Court from forcing him to show it.

The real issue is that Obama's father held foreign citizenship at the time of Obama's birth. This means that Obama is not a "natural born citizen" and therefore is ineligible to be President of the United States; even if he was born in Hawaii.

Dang it, Kooter, haven't you been paying attention AT ALL? James Buchanan's father was born in Ireland. However, JB was legally able to run for president in 1856. PS: He won. Woodrow Wilson's mother was born in England. Guess what? He won the presidency, too! This is not legal theory, it is fact!

[sanrene]

I would say, yes, it would matter. Nobody likes a liar and a guy that needs to cover up his past with conspiracies. He'd be another Nixon. The fact that it would invalidate his presidency and would do untold damage to the country would also almost automatically necessitate his removal from any political office and also possibly demand a prison term.
Add to that the legal costs, the fraudulent use of campaign contributions, he'd be sued into abject poverty. His brother in that shack in Kenya may end up living better than him.
But who would be president? Hillary would have had the nomination and may have beat McCain. But there are those who say she knows the truth about Obama's birth, which explains the way she's pretty much written her own ticket into Obama's cabinet.
If he goes down, she goes down with him. Biden might get to be president, but if Obama ran on fraud, then McCain would have won had it been exposed before the election so that possibly nullifies the outcome. Could we get a president by default or having one party be disqalified? Would we have to have another election entirely? Would Bush be kept on until a new special election happens, say in the spring?
Maybe we could disqualify BOTH major parties if it could be proven Obama's Kenyan birth was known by both and then have the next highest vote getting third party candidate be elected president. That would be truly great.

Thank you - a real on-topic, intelligent answer!

[delusianne]

Ed Hale, the guy who owns this Plains Radio, who interviewed L. Donofrio, is a Clinton backer; with Philip J. Berg was involved with African Press International. These nutty people are all connected, don't you think that's interesting?!

//www.city-data.com/forum/6368534-post54.html

(Well, I do, anyway!)

[sanrene]

Amazing. A poster asks a question, apparently in honesty. It takes four pages, 40 replies to get a decent answer from just one poster to answer the question. In the meantime, there is hyperventilating going on ad nauseum, accusations flying right and left, words of ill will and insanity being tossed around. And some folks ask why intelligence is so sorely lacking here, and in the world. Indeed. Just an opinion, folks, just an opinion. That's my statement, and I'll stand by it. If you don't like it, if you don't agree with it, tough snot, bug off.

Exactly! Just what I was thinking. Why all the spittle and froth from the bots?

[sanrene]

Yes, it would matter to me. No, I would expect him to not serve as President of the United States.

Yes, I would be more than a little surprised.

Another simple on-topic answer to a very simple question.

[sanrene]

And, actually, the phrase "natural born citizen" has never been defined in the Constitution or elsewhere and has never had a legal challenge to establish precedent and case law.

Blackstone.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Kooter

Not true. Just being a "citizen" is not the same as being a "natural born citizen', which is a requirement to be POTUS.

Originally Posted by NewMexicanRepublican

You are incorrect. There is a difference between citizen and natural born citizen. Research before you post.

As has been said, a trillion times over, "natural born citizen" has never been defined. We have had some presidents who were born in the US but one of their parents wasn't. That much is acceptable, by precedent.

Originally Posted by sanrene

I certainly hope the SCOTUS will, but it won't surprise me if they don't. If they don't many millions of people will forever believe Obama is not qualified to be POTUS under our Constitution.

The only thing that will make you happy, is if they decide Obama is not qualified.

I think it's funny that as it looks less and less likely, even to the likes of the wing-nuts that Obama was born in the USA, they have moved on to an even more dubious legal gymnastics move, ie, Obama's father wasn't a citizen, so he isn't "natural born" by some defintion of their own. As they say in gymnastics, "Stick it".

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Delta Planter

Amazing. A poster asks a question, apparently in honesty. It takes four pages, 40 replies to get a decent answer from just one poster to answer the question. In the meantime, there is hyperventilating going on ad nauseum, accusations flying right and left, words of ill will and insanity being tossed around. And some folks ask why intelligence is so sorely lacking here, and in the world. Indeed. Just an opinion, folks, just an opinion. That's my statement, and I'll stand by it. If you don't like it, if you don't agree with it, tough snot, bug off.

Oh, come on. This was a troll thread from the beginning.

[Kootr]

Originally Posted by cuebald

In what way is it wrong, Oh Wise One?

THIS IS THE LAW AT THE TIME OF OBAMA'S BIRTH WITH ANALYSIS
BY JOHN SAMPSON:

So much has been debated about whether or not Barack H. Obama II is or is not a Natural Born US citizen. The problem is that so many people are totally uninformed as to the law as it existed in 1961 as it relates to the transmission of citizenship to a child born outside the US or its Outlying Possessions (OLP).

]In an effort to clear the air, to get the FACTS out so people can clearly see the issue without opining or guessing as to the legalities, allow me to pontificate a bit.
For the record, I am a recently retired Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent, with more than 25 years experience. Part of that experience is understanding and comprehending immigration and nationality law which is at the center of this issue.

In short, I know a "little bit" about what I speak of.

In 1961, as opposed to TODAY, Section 301(g) of the Immigration and Nationality Act, as amended (INA) required the following: A child being born to one alien parent (i.e. Non Citizen) and one citizen parent in a marital relationship, required that the sole US citizen parent to have resided in the United States for a period of ten years, five of which must have been over the age of 14.

Today's version of the law has somewhat different residency requirements for the US citizen parent. But the law, as it applied on August 4, 1961, required ten years presence, five after the age of 14.

Barack Hussein Obama I (dad), was a citizen and national of Kenya. He was not, nor had never been, a United States citizen. Ergo, he is the "alien" parent in this scenario.

Stanley Ann Dunham (mom) was a US citizen by virtue of having been born in the US. At the time of Barack Hussein Obama II's birth on August 4, 1961, Ms. Dunham was 18 years old, having been born in November of 1942.

As such, if Barack Hussein Obama II was born outside the US or its Outlying Possessions, on August 4, 1961, then Ms. Dunham could not transmit her citizenship to her son because she failed to have accumulated the necessary physical presence requirements that the LAW (that pesky and inconvenient thing that oftentimes gets in the way of "change") demanded.

The earliest in which Ms. Dunham could have transmitted her citizenship to a child born outside the US would have been when she was 19 years of age, which was in November of 1961 and NOT in August of 1961, when Obama was born. It's that simple.

If he was born in Kenya, or anywhere else for that matter, other than the US or its OLP's, then he is not, nor can never be, eligible to hold the office of President of the United States of America inasmuch as he does not, nor never can, fulfill the requirements of Article II, Clause V of the Constitution of the United States.

It's not an optional thing, regardless of whether or not someone thinks it's fair or not. It's the law, that pesky, recurring inconvenience that seems to get in the way, time and time again.

Now, the question remains to be answered if he was born in Kenya or not. The State of Hawaii has weighed in and states that there is a record of Mr. Obama's birth on file in the Department of Vital Statistics.

However, THAT is not enough. There are two entirely different and distinct birth documents issued by the State of Hawaii.

The first is a Certificate of Live Birth which is the traditional birth certificate we all are familiar with for children born IN Hawaii. Then there is a different document entitled Certification of Live Birth, which is issued to children born OUTSIDE of Hawaii but whose birth is registered in Hawaii pursuant to a quaint and scarcely known Hawaiian law, Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17.8.

This law allows for the registration of a birth in Hawaii for a child who was born OUTSIDE Hawaii to parents who, for the year immediately preceding the child's birth, claimed Hawaii as their principle place of residence.

Dunham and Obama Sr. both resided in Hawaii for the year immediately preceding Senator Obama's birth. Ergo sum, his birth, even if it occurred in Kenya, could legally be registered in Hawaii, and a Certification of Live Birth could have been issued, giving the uninitiated the impression that he was born in Hawaii when in fact, he was not.

It is misleading when the State of Hawaii states that they have examined Obama's birth record and it is valid.

It could very well be the case. The ISSUE however, is whether or not he was born in Hawaii as he claims, or if he was born in Kenya. There is of course, a plausible scenario in which he could've been born in Kenya and yet have his birth recorded in Hawaii as having been born in Hawaii when in fact he was not.

It's quite simple actually. His mother could have lied.
That's right. Ann Dunham could have given birth in Kenya, brought Obama back with her to the US and then fraudulently registered the birth in Hawaii. Is it likely? Who knows?

Is it possible? As Sir Arthur Coynan Doyle has written: Once you have eliminated what is impossible, whatever remains, however unlikely, is possible.

In this case, anything is possible. And it's so unfortunate that the last relative on Ms. Dunham's side of the family, his maternal grandmother, who he conveniently just visited in Hawaii, was the one living relative that could possibly shed light on this subject. She has just past away.

A simple question asking her if her daughter went to Kenya prior to Barack's birth would end the speculation, assuming of course, her response is truthful.

And therein lays the rub. With so much fraud being perpetrated by the Daily KOS, Stop the Smears, and others, it's difficult to believe anything at this point. And isn't it oh so convenient that Obama goes to Hawaii on October 23, 2008 and the Hawaiian Department of Health, after his visit to Hawaii, issues the statement that the document they have is legitimate.

The wording of their statement leaves a lot to be desired. It's a non answer to a question. Yes, the document is valid. And? Was he born in Hawaii??????... silence.

The now infamous document posted on Stop the Smears and the Daily KOS, which has been determined to be a forgery by no fewer than three court certified Forensic Document Examiners, was a Certification of Live Birth and NOT a Certificate of Live Birth or Birth Certificate. However, in an effort to obfuscate the issue, the term "Birth Certificate" has been used interchangeably with "Certification of Live Birth". Assuming that Mr. Obama has a legitimate Certification of Live Birth, the question must be asked: "Why post a forgery?"

The answer is as follows: A. There does not exist a legitimate, authentic birth document for Obama showing birth anywhere in the US. OR
B. He does have a legitimate Certification of Live Birth issued by the State of Hawaii. However, that document shows his place of birth as being in Mombasa, Kenya and NOT in Hawaii as the forged copy claims.

What is troubling and frustrating is that Obama can, and has had the ability to do so for quite some time, resolve this matter by simply providing a certified copy of his authentic birth document.

[sanrene]

Oh, come on. This was a troll thread from the beginning.

Right. And jps' threads were not? Hypocrit much?