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On that line of reasoning, one could say that capitalism in the pre-War South "rasied the standard of living" of the slaves.
Because that is precisely the system modern-day China uses.
The economy of the People's Republic of China is the second largest in the world after that of the United States with a GDP of $7.8 trillion (2008) when measured on a purchasing power parity (PPP) basis. It is the third largest in the world after the US and Japan with a nominal GDP of US$4.4 trillion (2008) when measured in exchange-rate terms. China has been the fastest-growing major nation for the past quarter of a century with an average annual GDP growth rate above 10%.
Yeah, my knick-knack and doily sales on eBay are hurting and IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT!
It's got nothing to do with that fact that ultra-rich conservatives outsourced 90% of our manufacturing base to foreign countries! Traded in the economic future of our country for short term profits, and many of them even failed at that.
No, it's all Obama's fault!
A large part of this is because our government is now running this country in an eerily similar way that Meg Whitman and friends(Donahue, is it?) ran eBay into the ground.
Heck of a lot more of an adult than you, I'd venture.
Well let see -
1) The number of new unemployment claims were rising for months before Obama came in (sounds like he inherited a problem to me).
2) The stock market was diving for a full year before Obama came in (sounds like he inherited a problem to me).
3) Banks were failing for months before he came in (sounds like he inherited a problem to me).
4) Industrial production was falling for months before he came in (sounds like he inherited a problem to me).
5) GM and Chrysler were already in big trouble and their stock in the toilet before he came in (sounds like he inherited a problem to me).
6) The economy had been in recession since January of 2008 - a full year before Obama came in (sounds like he inherited a problem to me).
Gee, all these problems ALREADY in place when Obama was elected. That sounds like "inherited" to me.
Oh I don't "worship Obama - that's Wingnut thing - I just happen to think he is doing and will do a fine job.
Ken
Nobody denies that the Economy was weak before Obama was inaugurated. We know that and do not need to be reminded of it on a regular basis.
He needs to focus on trying to solve these problems, instead of saying 'we inherited' this or that. If he is so great, why has unemployment increased (roughly 2% and rising) since Inauguration? Why is unemployment higher with the stimulus than his advisors said it would be even without the stimulus?
Obama keeps talking about the deficit he 'inherited.' The 2009 deficit was predicted to be about $570 Billion on 1/20/09. The current prediction is around $ 2 Trillion. This is OBAMA'S CHOICE! He was not forced to do anything. Why didn't he spend more time on a meaningful stimulus plan? Why didn't Congress have time to read the stimulus? Why did he lie about the severity of the situation and the how much the stimulus would help? Why did he wait 4 days to sign the stimulus (and go home for Valentine's day) before signing the stimulus, if it was so urgent? Why raise taxes? Why raise energy prices? Why ruin the Healthcare system to help those who are uninsured? Government has no obligation to provide Health insurance for anyone. Why can't he wait longer and put more thought into Healthcare reform?
The economy of the People's Republic of China is the second largest in the world after that of the United States with a GDP of $7.8 trillion (2008) when measured on a purchasing power parity (PPP) basis. It is the third largest in the world after the US and Japan with a nominal GDP of US$4.4 trillion (2008) when measured in exchange-rate terms. China has been the fastest-growing major nation for the past quarter of a century with an average annual GDP growth rate above 10%.
That's great.
Tells you nothing about how that new wealth is spread through their society.
The South of the 1850's was the most affluent region of the US.
All built on slave labor, as is China.
But, I don't want them to change- except by inyternal means. I just want our country, and Middle Class, protected from them, and their expansive dictatorship, via tariffs.
Nobody denies that the Economy was weak before Obama was inaugurated. We know that and do not need to be reminded of it on a regular basis.
Why not? You seem to want to remind us that things are still bad every day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIS123
If he is so great, why has unemployment increased (roughly 2% and rising) since Inauguration?
Because something as massive as the US (and world) economies don't turn on a dime. There was a lot of inertial built up behind the collapse. It didn't start overnight and it's not going to END overnight. That's the nature of things. It shouldn't take a genius to figure that out. First the number of NEW job cuts needs to be reduced, THEN (and only THEN) can the total unemployment rate come down. Again, it isn't going to turn on a dime - but it IS turning. The number of new layoffs is falling and once falls far enough then the TOTAL number of unemployed (ie the backlog of people ALREADY without jobs) will begin to fall as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIS123
Why is unemployment higher with the stimulus than his advisors said it would be even without the stimulus?
Because the situation was even worse than expected (DUH!). Projections are only as good as the data you are working with at the time. If things are deteriorating faster than expected even as you are still planning, then your projections will be off - it's as simple as that. In the weeks that they were laying out that plan (much of it even before Obama was elected) the situation kept getting worse and worse - much worse than anticipated in the plan - so that when the time came, the projections didn't match the plan. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand that.
The fact is, he inherited a situation EVEN WORSE than the planners expected - so the projections based on that plan were off. It sure doesn't mean the stimulus caused those numbers to be off. The numbers were off - period. Stimulus or no stimulus - it was going to be worse than projected. That doesn't mean the stimulus won't help. It just means that even WITH the stimulus it's worse than expected. Without the stimulus it will likely be even MORE worse.
Tells you nothing about how that new wealth is spread through their society.
The South of the 1850's was the most affluent region of the US.
All built on slave labor, as is China.
But, I don't want them to change- except by inyternal means. I just want our country, and Middle Class, protected from them, and their expansive dictatorship, via tariffs.
our middle class now is being threatened more by our elite leaders than by the chinese. i think this is exceptionally well said:
We are abandoning the rule of law. We are ignoring our own Constitution and we are making up new rules every day. We are also breaking legitimate contracts and not following the laws we have, like bankruptcy laws, that are already on the books. Money and its influence are dominating our rule of law, and that is nothing but lawlessness. Thus capital will wind up leaving the United States and that’s an appropriate response when the rule of law is ignored.
(nathan's economic edge)
Actually Obama INHERITED a disaster - and it's just been a few short months, but already the stock markets have stabilized and been in a generally upward trend for the last 3 months (the last time that happened was way back in the 2nd quarter of 2007) and there are lots of indications we are very near the bottom of the Recession. Once the stimulus money starts to really flow there should be quite a bit or improvement. Unemployment levels are indeed very high, but the pace of job cuts is falling considerably - indicating that the layoff wave that began last year is finally abating.
All in all I'm pretty satisfied.
The fact that you are not is pretty irrelevant to me - you probably wouldn't be pleased no matter WHAT Obama does.
I figure you folks had your chance and your goober blew it, now it's time to try something different whether YOU like it or not.
Ken
What we need is to have the democrats control one house of congress and the republicans control the other house of congress. Only then will we get away from the current madness.
our middle class now is being threatened more by our elite leaders than by the chinese. i think this is exceptionally well said:
We are abandoning the rule of law. We are ignoring our own Constitution and we are making up new rules every day. We are also breaking legitimate contracts and not following the laws we have, like bankruptcy laws, that are already on the books. Money and its influence are dominating our rule of law, and that is nothing but lawlessness. Thus capital will wind up leaving the United States and that’s an appropriate response when the rule of law is ignored.
(nathan's economic edge)
Do you think that your second paragraph is evidence that supports your first statement? Or are you leaving that first statement unsupported?
WASHINGTON - Since 2001, President Bush's tax cuts have shifted federal tax payments from the richest Americans to a wide swath of middle-class families, the Congressional Budget Office has found, a conclusion likely to roil the presidential election campaign.
I hope you have been fighting for the middle class since 2001.
so exactly how is obama helping the working middle class, with our unemployment rate rising? he just made this statement:
Obama left open the possibility he would have to raise taxes on most Americans to decrease the deficit if growth were too weak. He also indicated he might tax the most-expensive employer-provided benefits to help pay for his health-care revamp. Both would reverse pledges he made during the campaign.
that would certainly put working americans between a rock and a hard place, less jobs and more taxes, not a pretty combination.
furthermore, i think an even bigger issue right now is our currency situation. we are seeing a rise in the BRIC countries and yet our congress wants to help fund the IMF. this is total insanity and will end badly for the united states. we need to get back to manufacturing, stop sending money overseas, and concentrate on our own country, while implementing tariffs for the time being. all of this cap and trade will also put american workers at a disadvantage. obama is clearly not looking out for the american worker since he seems to be focused on his "global vision".
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