Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Barack Obama won Pennsylvania with a 11% margin. The same margin Senator McCain won Texas by. In '04 the margin was 2.5% and in '00 it was 4.2%
Is Pennsylvania becoming a Democratic state like Illinois where the get out the vote efforts in the major metros (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh) and surrounding areas overwhelm the Republican vote?
Obviously it is really early to start handicapping the next Presidential election but it is fun
Becoming? It was that way when I was growing up there, 50+ years ago!
Toomey doesn't have much of a chance in PA. He is just WAYY to conservative for the state and will get stomped in suburban Philly.
A McCain type of Republican (circa the McCain of 2000) is the only type of Republican that would have a chance in PA. A key reason why he lost by as much as he did is his hard track right during the campaign (though he still would have lost PA easily anyway) The only Republican who could win PA is a moderate (and on the Presidential level even that might be hard) the Philly suburbs just make it impossible for a conservative to win. The margins will simply be too large there for that to happen.
Other way. McCain lost BECAUSE he is a moderate, which means he is unprincipled and stands for nothing. He did not offer a real choice versus the disastrous policies of Obama. McCain engineered the TARP bill, supports Cap and Trade, is a global warming (or climate change) alarmist, supports open borders, opposed Bush tax cuts, opposes waterboarding, opposed offshore drilling until running for President, continues to oppose drilling in ANWR, co-sponsored McCain Feingold and the list goes on. He is a joke.
McCain is not a conservative; never was and never will be. It's idiots like him who have brought down the GOP, be it: Crist, Shwarzenegger, Bush, Specter (until the switch), Snowe, Collins, Voinovich, Murkowski.....
Other way. McCain lost BECAUSE he is a moderate, which means he is unprincipled and stands for nothing. He did not offer a real choice versus the disastrous policies of Obama. McCain engineered the TARP bill, supports Cap and Trade, is a global warming (or climate change) alarmist, supports open borders, opposed Bush tax cuts, opposes waterboarding, opposed offshore drilling until running for President, continues to oppose drilling in ANWR, co-sponsored McCain Feingold and the list goes on. He is a joke.
McCain is not a conservative; never was and never will be. It's idiots like him who have brought down the GOP, be it: Crist, Shwarzenegger, Bush, Specter (until the switch), Snowe, Collins, Voinovich, Murkowski.....
McCain would have lost anyway because the state has become more Democratic, a key reason is the movement in the Philadelphia suburbs. That movement is not because of Republicans not being conservative enough, its because they are too conservative. Specter (while still a Republican) is the only one recently to win suburban Philly, and he is the most moderate out of the recent Senate, Gov, and Presidential candidates for the GOP. In order for the Republicans to have a chance of winning again in PA they need to become competitive again in areas such as Montgomery County, Delaware County, Bucks County, Chester County. A conservative will not do that. Toomey will get crushed there, as would candidates such as Palin and Huckabee, Romney would fair a little better than the other two, but still would lose pretty easily in those areas. Conservative Republicans are no longer competitive in the Philadelphia suburbs, and you can't win the state unless you are competitive in suburban Philly.
As far as complaints about Snowe and Collins, they are your old style traditional Rockefeller Republicans, from a time period when the party was more inclusive and competitive in the northeast. They are basically the only type of Republicans that are electable statewide in a liberal state such as Maine.
I obviously grew up in a different Pennsylvania than the one some of you are talking about. Most of western PA is solid blue collar Democrat. This includes not only Pittsburgh and Allegheny County, but most of the other western counties as well. Suburban Philly used to be more Republican, but now apparently has gone Democrat, too.
I obviously grew up in a different Pennsylvania than the one some of you are talking about. Most of western PA is solid blue collar Democrat. This includes not only Pittsburgh and Allegheny County, but most of the other western counties as well. Suburban Philly used to be more Republican, but now apparently has gone Democrat, too.
Social issues have played a bigger role, Pittsburgh and the immediate surrounding areas are still more blue-collar Democratic. The Republicans have some inroads in other portions of western PA. Union influence has subsided a bit in some areas, and the area is socially conservative. Suburban Philly on the other hand has done the opposite. It was your generally old style Rockefeller Republican stronghold. As the GOP became the Party of southern Evangelicalism this did not sit all that well with the old school Rockefeller Republicans (same thing has happened here on LI, in Westchester County NY & some other suburban areas of large cities). Also they are now more economically moderate than economically conservative. Things such as education funding and spending are quite important in Suburban Philly. Due to the fact the Dem trends in the SE is a bit stronger than the GOP trends in portions of Western PA & the population is larger there as well, it has moved the state a bit further into the Dem column as a whole.
Pennsylvania is a solidly Democractic state and has been for some time. I think that fact that Pennsylvania is relatively socially conservative, compared to other states in the Northeast, confuses some people into thinking that the state is a political coin toss.
Pennsylvania's politics do not mirror that of West Virginia's or Kentucky's. Not at all. Pennsylvania is HEAPS more progressive than either one of those states.
The Philadelphia and Pittsburgh areas are home to 8.5 million of Pennsylvania's 12.5 million residents. Both of those metropolitan areas are solidly Democratic. Couple that with the next tier of Pennsylvania cities: Allentown, Erie, Scranton, Harrisburg, Lancaster, and State College all being Democratic areas, and you have what is a solid blue state.
The only areas of Pennsylvania that are Republican are rural central and western Pennsylvania.
Other way. McCain lost BECAUSE he is a moderate, which means he is unprincipled and stands for nothing. He did not offer a real choice versus the disastrous policies of Obama. McCain engineered the TARP bill, supports Cap and Trade, is a global warming (or climate change) alarmist, supports open borders, opposed Bush tax cuts, opposes waterboarding, opposed offshore drilling until running for President, continues to oppose drilling in ANWR, co-sponsored McCain Feingold and the list goes on. He is a joke.
McCain is not a conservative; never was and never will be. It's idiots like him who have brought down the GOP, be it: Crist, Shwarzenegger, Bush, Specter (until the switch), Snowe, Collins, Voinovich, Murkowski.....
You think a conservative would have won Pennsylvania! A real right-wing candidate like Gingrich, Palin, Ryan, Cornyn, Jindal, Perry, DeMint, etc... It might have gotten the Democrats to 60% in Pennsylvania vs the 55% on election night.
Conservative Jim Gerlach(r) won election and re election in the Philly suburb counties( Berks, Chester, Montgomery). His opponent twice was very liberal ( Lois Murphy,a friend of the Governor). Close elections but he won. Last time he beat another somewhat liberal but unknown businessman who admittedly ran a terrible campaign.
In the adjoining congressional seat blue dog democrat Tim Holden is in a much more conservative district( Berks, Lebanon, Schuylkill counties) but wins over many republicans and gets 55 to 60% of the vote.
Republicans have tried to describe Holden as liberal but the voters reject the idea because they know he's more conservative than many moderate republicans.
Berks also replaced a republican DA with a democrat and replaced a democrat county commissioner with a republican. Party lines got largely ignored and the voters decided both races based on performance. Pennsylvanians, at least outside of major urban areas, do not just vote lockstep with their party. They vote on issues and on candidates. That's not going to change any time soon.
You think a conservative would have won Pennsylvania! A real right-wing candidate like Gingrich, Palin, Ryan, Cornyn, Jindal, Perry, DeMint, etc... It might have gotten the Democrats to 60% in Pennsylvania vs the 55% on election night.
McCain was a weak candidate who offered little contrast to Obama. The left and the media advocates these great 'moderate' GOPers but would never support them and turn on them once they have been nominated.
There is more to being a conservative than being opposed to abortion and gay marriage. I think a real conservative candidate could have done better than McCain in PA, though he or she may not have carried the commonwealth. Even W did much better in PA than McCain. PA is an industrial state and a candidate firmly opposed to Cap-and-Trade (which McCain supports, though not the House version) would have an edge. Keep in mind, McCain suspended his campaign and led the effort for the TARP program. A real conservative would not support that and the Congressional conservatives (Paul, Pence, Bachmann, Henserling, etc.) opposed it vehemently. Given the 2008 climate, it may have been tough for the (R) to carry PA in the President's race. Pat Toomey is a true conservative and, IMO, will carry the Senate race next year. Specter stands for nothing and Sestak is to the left of Obama. His policies (higher taxes, EFCA, more Government, Cap-and-Trade, Government run Healthcare, no tort reform, etc.) are bad for PA as they are for the entire nation.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
