Has popular culture stopped evolving over the past 20 years? (2009, movie, nbc)

[Lake County IN]

Originally Posted by tvdxer

Yes, it has. I don't see how something that many people spend one to two hours on daily and always check hasn't made a change in their life.

"The same crap they always have"? What's "always have" in reference to tweeting? "Tweeting" or updating your Facebook status is a NEW thing. It's a way of constantly broadcasting, instantly, your mood or thoughts to an audience of friends and family who may be located thousands of miles apart. Nothing quite like it existed before the introduction of Facebook and Twitter.

The way a society "documents" things is part of their culture, as much a part as superficial things like tastes in movies and music.

People had telephones before, ya know?

If I wanted to call everybody I knew 150 times a day, I could have.

I just didn't want to.

That's my point. Most people didn't want the world to know what they were doing at all times 20 years ago. It was "reality TV" that created the mindset that made Twitter possible in the first place. It would've flopped at any other point in history, except for today where people get famous from sex tapes and get famous for being famous.

Facebook just served the needs of a population that was CHANGED by reality TV, but Facebook didn't actually change anybody

[tvdxer]

Originally Posted by Lake County IN

People had telephones before, ya know?

If I wanted to call everybody I knew 150 times a day, I could have.

I just didn't want to.

That's my point. Most people didn't want the world to know what they were doing at all times 20 years ago. It was "reality TV" that created the mindset that made Twitter possible in the first place. It would've flopped at any other point in history, except for today where people get famous from sex tapes and get famous for being famous.

Facebook just served the needs of a population that was CHANGED by reality TV, but Facebook didn't actually change anybody

Bad analogy.

Calling 150 people takes a whole lot of time and effort - probably at least an hour and a half. Updating your Facebook status or sending a tweet takes about 10 seconds.

A huge difference between now and twenty years ago (even ten years ago for many people) is that almost ANYBODY can publish ANY kind of content today almost instantly. Twenty years ago you couldn't make a home video available to the world instantly - only the major media outlets could do that. Twenty years ago you couldn't post an article you wrote online that could be read by anybody anywhere in the world on their screen instantly - the best bet for a wide audience would be to publish it in a major newspaper or magazine, which is next to impossible for most amateurs - and besides, slow and even more ephemeral than the internet (most newspapers get recycled soon after they are read).

Granted, most of the time it stays within a closed circle of friends...many times it attracts an additional audience...and some of the time it goes viral. Most people in the U.S., Canada, and increasingly
Mexico have taken advantage of the technologies that enable this - new tools of immense significance in the information age - and that's a cultural change. It's affected every social institution. My grandmother tells my mother about the things that other people see me put on my Facebook status. Social networking is of enormous importance to brands. And it goes on and on and on.

The internet - and social networking in particular - have effected a significant and demonstrable change in peoples' lives. The technology or tools that people use forms a major part of their culture, so I don't see why this is not a "cultural" change.

[Lake County IN]

Originally Posted by tvdxer

Bad analogy.

Calling 150 people takes a whole lot of time and effort - probably at least an hour and a half. Updating your Facebook status or sending a tweet takes about 10 seconds.

A huge difference between now and twenty years ago (even ten years ago for many people) is that almost ANYBODY can publish ANY kind of content today almost instantly. Twenty years ago you couldn't make a home video available to the world instantly - only the major media outlets could do that. Twenty years ago you couldn't post an article you wrote online that could be read by anybody anywhere in the world on their screen instantly - the best bet for a wide audience would be to publish it in a major newspaper or magazine, which is next to impossible for most amateurs - and besides, slow and even more ephemeral than the internet (most newspapers get recycled soon after they are read).

Granted, most of the time it stays within a closed circle of friends...many times it attracts an additional audience...and some of the time it goes viral. Most people in the U.S., Canada, and increasingly
Mexico have taken advantage of the technologies that enable this - new tools of immense significance in the information age - and that's a cultural change. It's affected every social institution. My grandmother tells my mother about the things that other people see me put on my Facebook status. Social networking is of enormous importance to brands. And it goes on and on and on.

The internet - and social networking in particular - have effected a significant and demonstrable change in peoples' lives. The technology or tools that people use forms a major part of their culture, so I don't see why this is not a "cultural" change.

It is a change, just technological, not values wise.

Peoples values don't change because of technology. The values they already have just are more on display.

If I'm a conservative (which I'm not) who say . . . thinks gay marriage should be illegal, Facebook isn't going to change that. I'll just use Facebook to spread the ideological viewpoints that I already have. I may reach more people, but the values are the same.

The difference in the past is that people's values changed COMPLETELY.

Take the difference between the '50s and '60s for example

People who were raised to hate people in different races ended up in communes with people in every race, marrying people of different races, and fought against racism.

People who were straight laced and wore suits and ties (like The Beatles), out of the blue started dropping acid, wearing hippie clothes, and writing songs that sounded nothing like their original songs.

That is a value change. When people's whole worldviews change. That happened to a whole generation of people (with exceptions).

The worldviews from the '60s, '70s, '80s, and '90s changed with each decade pretty much. Each generation's worldview was totally different than the last.

That's not happening now.

It's the same worldview just with Twitter and Facebook to talk about the same stuff.

[tvdxer]

Originally Posted by Lake County IN

It is a change, just technological, not values wise.

Peoples values don't change because of technology. The values they already have just are more on display.

If I'm a conservative (which I'm not) who say . . . thinks gay marriage should be illegal, Facebook isn't going to change that. I'll just use Facebook to spread the ideological viewpoints that I already have. I may reach more people, but the values are the same.

The difference in the past is that people's values changed COMPLETELY.

Take the difference between the '50s and '60s for example

People who were raised to hate people in different races ended up in communes with people in every race, marrying people of different races, and fought against racism.

People who were straight laced and wore suits and ties (like The Beatles), out of the blue started dropping acid, wearing hippie clothes, and writing songs that sounded nothing like their original songs.

That is a value change. When people's whole worldviews change. That happened to a whole generation of people (with exceptions).

The worldviews from the '60s, '70s, '80s, and '90s changed with each decade pretty much. Each generation's worldview was totally different than the last.

That's not happening now.

It's the same worldview just with Twitter and Facebook to talk about the same stuff.

A peoples' values do not entirely their culture, but a part of it.

However, I would say peoples' values are changing, especially among the young and even middle-aged. Who knows if Twitter or Facebook has anything do with it, but acceptance of same-sex marriage and homosexuality in general has risen greatly even in the past 10 years. Intolerance of childbirths out of wedlock has seemed to lessen; we have also seen the rise of the hook-up culture and increased acceptance of female promiscuity, although I hear promiscuity was common before the HIV epidemic broke. A precipitous rise has been observed in the percent of the population who consider themselves "non-religious". "Green" consciousness has seemed to make more of an incursion into mainstream thought, though they movement has been there and visible since the 1960's.

[Lake County IN]

Originally Posted by tvdxer

A peoples' values do not entirely their culture, but a part of it.

However, I would say peoples' values are changing, especially among the young and even middle-aged. Who knows if Twitter or Facebook has anything do with it, but acceptance of same-sex marriage and homosexuality in general has risen greatly even in the past 10 years. Intolerance of childbirths out of wedlock has seemed to lessen; we have also seen the rise of the hook-up culture and increased acceptance of female promiscuity, although I hear promiscuity was common before the HIV epidemic broke. A precipitous rise has been observed in the percent of the population who consider themselves "non-religious". "Green" consciousness has seemed to make more of an incursion into mainstream thought, though they movement has been there and visible since the 1960's.

All small, gradual changes in values.

Not seismic shifts in short periods of time.


Pretty much all of those values existed BEFORE the last decade started and have just become more pervasive.

Hell, hook up culture started in the late '90s after the AIDS phobia of the 80s and '90s subsided. And like you said, pre-AIDS, the hookup culture was even crazier in the '60s and '70s.

Intolerance to out of wedlock births was already going way down in the '80s and '90s. Most urban areas already had majority out of wedlock births.

Homosexuality was actually more accepted in the pre-Reagan/Moral Majority era in the '70s, than it was in the 2000s. Just watch any documentary on Studio 54 and stuff like that. It was actually the Moral Majority witch hunts of the '80s that pushed sexuality back into the closets. The 60s and '70s were far wilder.

Religion has been going down hill for a long time. That didn't just start in the 2000s. Ever heard of George Carlin? Bill Hicks? Richard Dawkins? Christopher Hitchens? Those guys been around a looooooong time. And I'd say it was the sexual abuse scandals of the late '90s that really got the ball rolling in terms of mainstream anti-religious sentiment.

I don't really see the "green" trend as a seismic change as much as it is a necessity in a world where gas is 4 dollars.

[tvdxer]

Originally Posted by Lake County IN

All small, gradual changes in values.

Not seismic shifts in short periods of time.


Pretty much all of those values existed BEFORE the last decade started and have just become more pervasive.

Hell, hook up culture started in the late '90s after the AIDS phobia of the 80s and '90s subsided. And like you said, pre-AIDS, the hookup culture was even crazier in the '60s and '70s.

Intolerance to out of wedlock births was already going way down in the '80s and '90s. Most urban areas already had majority out of wedlock births.

Homosexuality was actually more accepted in the pre-Reagan/Moral Majority era in the '70s, than it was in the 2000s. Just watch any documentary on Studio 54 and stuff like that. It was actually the Moral Majority witch hunts of the '80s that pushed sexuality back into the closets. The 60s and '70s were far wilder.

Religion has been going down hill for a long time. That didn't just start in the 2000s. Ever heard of George Carlin? Bill Hicks? Richard Dawkins? Christopher Hitchens? Those guys been around a looooooong time. And I'd say it was the sexual abuse scandals of the late '90s that really got the ball rolling in terms of mainstream anti-religious sentiment.

I don't really see the "green" trend as a seismic change as much as it is a necessity in a world where gas is 4 dollars.

Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens were only well known names in the 2000s.

And I think you're focusing too much on the "culture makers" / young generation rather than the general population. Homosexuality was certainly not nearly as accepted in the 1960's and 1970's as much as now in the general public. Neither were a lot of things.

[Lake County IN]

Originally Posted by tvdxer

Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens were only well known names in the 2000s.

And I think you're focusing too much on the "culture makers" / young generation rather than the general population. Homosexuality was certainly not nearly as accepted in the 1960's and 1970's as much as now in the general public. Neither were a lot of things.

Young people are the ones who make the culture.

They are the avant garde

Historically, once people turn 30 and start getting married, having jobs, etc . . . they are no longer on the edge of new cultures, trends, etc . . .

It's the youth from 16-30, who are the ones who shape the culture. They shape fashion trends, new slang language, music culture, ideas, etc . . .

Older people have more important things to worry about.

[jamiecarternyc103]

Pop music has stopped evolving. You listen to Kelly Clarkson, Avril Lavigne and Katy Perry and they're all this characterless hook and ballad driven songs that could be interchangeable for any female singer of the past 15 years. Why we keep anointing these girls with no song-writing and sometimes no singing ability is a strange thing.

[Huckleberry3911948]

its not an evolving. its a degeneration.

[katnip kid]

Looking back over the past decades of my life, it seems as though the culture has not really changed much in the past 20 years. The '70s definately had its own things going on, ditto the '80s. It is much more than pop music and slang! It is about many things. Once the culture got to the early '90s, it doesn't appear to have changed much. It is as though there is little or nothing original to give this era its own feel and look, to make it truly unique and different from the rest.