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Old 01-15-2021, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Maine
21,286 posts, read 25,297,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
While we’re at it, I believe Edward Norton didn’t want to keep playing the Hulk so the role went to Mark Ruffalo.
Ehh ... kinda/sorta. There was a bit more to it than that.

From what I understand, Norton can be kind of a pain to work with. He is very demanding and very set in his vision of the way things ought to be. He fought to make that Hulk movie more character-driven and to heighten the dramatic moments. But Marvel just wanted more, "Hulk SMASH!" I guess the "discussions" got pretty ugly toward the end and Norton walked. It's why he did almost no press to promote the movie.

If you watch the DVD, there are a lot deleted scenes that would have made that a better movie. I gather that there were even more that were never even filmed because Marvel just wanted more punching.
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Old 01-15-2021, 10:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
I would like for there to be a bit more variety in there, but the genre is here to stay for a while.
Some directors want that, too, but the studios keep fighting with them to the point they walk or the director's cut gets shuffled like a card deck into a cut that the studio execs find acceptable, i.e. they feel will make them the most money.

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Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
I’m surprised no one mentioned Logan, that was one of the best gritty superhero movies of the last few years. I’d say it was even better than Nolan’s trilogy.
I won't compare it to Batman Begins, because that's an origin movie, but Logan is definitely better than The Dark Knight Rises (which was still good enough for Iron Man 3 to borrow major plot points from).

One thing that was noticeably lacking in Nolan's films was Batman's fight choreography, which didn't become apparent until Rises, since The Dark Knight didn't require it, and that's a nearly perfect film as it is.

But, yes, Logan is one of the best CBMs out there, period. So is X-Men: First Class.

When I saw The Winter Soldier, the film's first fifteen minutes revealed immediately that the Russos had gone to lengths to depict Steve Rogers as a viable one-on-one combatant, in a way even the first Avengers movie didn't show us.
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Old 01-15-2021, 10:55 AM
 
8,609 posts, read 4,894,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Ehh ... kinda/sorta. There was a bit more to it than that.

From what I understand, Norton can be kind of a pain to work with. He is very demanding and very set in his vision of the way things ought to be. He fought to make that Hulk movie more character-driven and to heighten the dramatic moments. But Marvel just wanted more, "Hulk SMASH!" I guess the "discussions" got pretty ugly toward the end and Norton walked. It's why he did almost no press to promote the movie.

If you watch the DVD, there are a lot deleted scenes that would have made that a better movie. I gather that there were even more that were never even filmed because Marvel just wanted more punching.
The irony is that Endgame certainly could have used some "Hulk smash!"
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Old 01-15-2021, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Maine
21,286 posts, read 25,297,215 times
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
Some directors want that, too, but the studios keep fighting with them to the point they walk or the director's cut gets shuffled like a card deck into a cut that the studio execs find acceptable, i.e. they feel will make them the most money.
Super hero movies have largely become manufactured product. Both Marvel and DC are doing it. They have become as formulaic as Happy Meals.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
One thing that was noticeably lacking in Nolan's films was Batman's fight choreography, which didn't become apparent until Rises, since The Dark Knight didn't require it, and that's a nearly perfect film as it is.
Nolan has many strengths as a director, but the man couldn't direct a fight scene to save his life. THE DARK KNIGHT had two significant ones: Batman vs. Scarecrow and his goons (near the beginning of the movie) and Batman vs. the Joker and his dogs (at the end). Both are a muddled mess. Confusing and utterly lacking in tension.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
When I saw The Winter Soldier, the film's first fifteen minutes revealed immediately that the Russos had gone to lengths to depict Steve Rogers as a viable one-on-one combatant, in a way even the first Avengers movie didn't show us.
I used to consider CA:TWS one of my favorite comic book movies. I rewatched it again recently. I didn't like it as much. Don't get me wrong. I still like it. It's a good movie. But a favorite? Don't think so. CGi goes way overboard in places. And I don't mind when super-powered characters do super-powered things, but when the laws of physics stop working for no reason, it bugs me.
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Old 01-15-2021, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
The irony is that Endgame certainly could have used some "Hulk smash!"
Endgame had some nice scenes, but as a whole it doesn't work at all. The premise is too ridiculous.

The main bad guy can literally do anything with a thought and the snap of his fingers. Literally anything. And yet the film's climax is hundreds of people punching each other.

It is beyond stupid. It would have to spend 10 days climbing to make it to base stupidity.
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:10 PM
 
5,206 posts, read 2,689,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Ehh ... kinda/sorta. There was a bit more to it than that.

From what I understand, Norton can be kind of a pain to work with. He is very demanding and very set in his vision of the way things ought to be. He fought to make that Hulk movie more character-driven and to heighten the dramatic moments. But Marvel just wanted more, "Hulk SMASH!" I guess the "discussions" got pretty ugly toward the end and Norton walked. It's why he did almost no press to promote the movie.

If you watch the DVD, there are a lot deleted scenes that would have made that a better movie. I gather that there were even more that were never even filmed because Marvel just wanted more punching.
That’s probably true as well. Norton doesn’t promote a movie unless he’s fully on board. The same thing happened with The Italian Job back in 2003. He had harsh things to say about the film.

It’s possible that Norton didn’t want to be tied to the MCU as he was interested in exploring other types of movies.

To be honest, I don’t even remember much of his Hulk movie. I saw it back in 2008 when it came out, and haven’t revisited it since. I think it has become a pattern with superhero movies. Watch them once and then move on.
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Old 01-15-2021, 04:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Endgame had some nice scenes, but as a whole it doesn't work at all. The premise is too ridiculous.

The main bad guy can literally do anything with a thought and the snap of his fingers. Literally anything. And yet the film's climax is hundreds of people punching each other.

It is beyond stupid. It would have to spend 10 days climbing to make it to base stupidity.
We agree on something!

LET THE SEAS PART!

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Old 01-15-2021, 04:55 PM
 
8,609 posts, read 4,894,559 times
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Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Super hero movies have largely become manufactured product. Both Marvel and DC are doing it. They have become as formulaic as Happy Meals.
Well, a certain director tried to do something different, to deviate from formula, and continues to be castigated regularly for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Nolan has many strengths as a director, but the man couldn't direct a fight scene to save his life.
The big mob fight scene in TDKR's climax gets worse every time I see it. It's lazy writing (until he finally gets rid of Bane), and proof that Nolan's take on Batman — that he operates best at night — shouldn't have been changed for the third film. But it's still a good movie, overall. It's the biggest and most ambitious of the three, which is why it's the most flawed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
THE DARK KNIGHT had two significant ones: Batman vs. Scarecrow and his goons (near the beginning of the movie)
Too brief to be a true "fight scene." But come on, this is great, which is why the shot where he lands on Scarecrow's van was in the trailer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhn8VVtrfDk


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
and Batman vs. the Joker and his dogs (at the end). Both are a muddled mess. Confusing and utterly lacking in tension.
Disagree. That entire sequence (which also consists of the people on the water) was great. And that thing with the dogs lasted but seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I used to consider CA:TWS one of my favorite comic book movies. I rewatched it again recently. I didn't like it as much. Don't get me wrong. I still like it. It's a good movie. But a favorite? Don't think so. CGi goes way overboard in places. And I don't mind when super-powered characters do super-powered things, but when the laws of physics stop working for no reason, it bugs me.
The laws of physics are elastic in CBMs. You have to allow wiggle room. Look at Iron Man, for starters.
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Old 01-16-2021, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Maine
21,286 posts, read 25,297,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
Well, a certain director tried to do something different, to deviate from formula, and continues to be castigated regularly for it.
Yeah, but different does not always equal good.

If the superhero genre was a pizza, yeah people might be getting tired of just mozzarella, tomato sauce, and pepperoni. Along comes Zack Snyder, who gets rid of the mozzarella in favor of blue cheese, gets rid of the tomato sauce in favor of grape jelly, and makes sure the pepperoni is made from pure organic ostrich feathers. It's definitely different. It's also unpalatable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
The big mob fight scene in TDKR's climax gets worse every time I see it. It's lazy writing (until he finally gets rid of Bane), and proof that Nolan's take on Batman — that he operates best at night — shouldn't have been changed for the third film. But it's still a good movie, overall. It's the biggest and most ambitious of the three, which is why it's the most flawed.
I liked the scenes with Joseph Gordon Levitt. It's a shame that guy isn't a major star, because I think he's one of the best actors working. But the rest of the movie is a mess. In my most magnanimous mood, I just dislike it. When I'm feeling irascible, I kinda hate it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
Too brief to be a true "fight scene." But come on, this is great, which is why the shot where he lands on Scarecrow's van was in the trailer.
It's a great shot, and it is iconic Batman. But one great shot doesn't make a great scene. The rest of the scene is muddled mess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt View Post
The laws of physics are elastic in CBMs. You have to allow wiggle room. Look at Iron Man, for starters.
There is a difference between "wiggle room" and "completely ignore." And I do think Iron Man goes too far. I can buy the super tech. But his suit is doing stuff that is basically magic.
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Old 01-16-2021, 12:56 PM
 
8,609 posts, read 4,894,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Yeah, but different does not always equal good.

If the superhero genre was a pizza, yeah people might be getting tired of just mozzarella, tomato sauce, and pepperoni. Along comes Zack Snyder, who gets rid of the mozzarella in favor of blue cheese, gets rid of the tomato sauce in favor of grape jelly, and makes sure the pepperoni is made from pure organic ostrich feathers. It's definitely different. It's also unpalatable.
Right on cue, another patently "MarkuS" food analogy.

And I conveniently (it really is too convenient) refer back to my "Big Mac" analogy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I liked the scenes with Joseph Gordon Levitt. It's a shame that guy isn't a major star, because I think he's one of the best actors working. But the rest of the movie is a mess. In my most magnanimous mood, I just dislike it. When I'm feeling irascible, I kinda hate it.
Exposition-wise, it's not a mess. It's coherent. What I don't like are the creative liberties the Nolans took, starting with Batman's eight-year hiatus. That's just not Batman, dig? And it was obviously a load o' bull, because he had tech down in the "pseudo-Batcave"!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
It's a great shot, and it is iconic Batman. But one great shot doesn't make a great scene. The rest of the scene is muddled mess.
The scene can't be more linear. If a scene is perfectly linear, it can't be "muddled."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
There is a difference between "wiggle room" and "completely ignore." And I do think Iron Man goes too far. I can buy the super tech. But his suit is doing stuff that is basically magic.
Cap's shield follows a magical trajectory whenever it's thrown. Black Widow's ability to knock out an armored foe with her bare fist is likewise magical, as is her ability to withstand the concussive blast of a grenade at close range. War Machine "sensed" Vision's energy blast (which should be instantaneous) before it reaches him, so that he can dodge it — if that isn't bending physics, I don't know what is.

Falcon has the uncanny (like an X-mutant, if you get my drift) ability to not get seriously hurt.

That's what I'm getting at.
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