becoming an Anime fan? (2010, cartoons, Genesis, watch)

[Gantz]

Originally Posted by ragnarkar

Sorry, meant "untypical"

What do you mean by "untypical"? The anime you listed are pretty mainstream and they cover totally different genres. Haruhi Suzumiya is comedy/fan service, Kino's Journey is adventure/fantasy, Monster is thriller/drama... so a pretty wide range there.

[BVitamin]

I think what he means is "atypical" or "unconventional" story lines. Having a larger vocabulary would help convey your thoughts more effectively; pick up a book, a good one, every now and then, it will help, just a thought. After some time I believe you'll expand on other things as well, just not vocabulary, like reasoning skills for example.

I wouldn't classify Kino as a part of that typical mainstream stuff. Watch Mushi-shi, it's strange, beautiful, and everything out there in the known universe, intrinsically so. Durarara is another good one, fairly recent show. Kaiba. Anything that was made by Studio 4c, check out their short films under the title Genius Party and Genius Party Beyond.

[Gantz]

Did you just seriously recommend someone who is new to anime scene to watch Genius Party? *Head explodes*

Genius Party, Kaiba, Serial Experiments Lain, FLCL, etc are definitely not for beginners...

[BVitamin]

Originally Posted by Gantz

Did you just seriously recommend someone who is new to anime scene to watch Genius Party? *Head explodes*

Genius Party, Kaiba, Serial Experiments Lain, FLCL, etc are definitely not for beginners...

He wanted atypical (assuming that's what he meant) so that's what I recommended. And nor do I believe that one must cultivate an experience of watching anime to "get" these "atypical" shows/shorts/movies, that would be absurd; It has more to do with the mentality of that person. If someone were to state that they love Pokemon, Naruto, Bleach, and wanted shows of that type then no, I would not have suggested what I did. Beginners? lol.

Anime is like any other storytelling medium, one does not need to accumulate experience to enjoy and/or understand it. Would you say the same thing for movies/shows made in Hollywood or movies made in other parts of the world? Storytelling is storytelling. Let's take David Lynch's films for example; I would not attribute "getting" his films or liking his films based on experience of watching his films, you either do or you don't and a lot of that has to do with one's state of mind, I believe.

[Gantz]

Anime is not just like any other story telling medium, it is more similar to Greek literature. You can pick up and read Oresteia right away, but you'll appreciate it much more if you read Homer first. Same can be said about anime because they play off of each other and have common things/jokes running through them. For one, most (if not all) of the anime have Japanese cultural references in them, which simply a "beginner" to anime who has no experience with Japanese culture would not "get". There are also a lot of titles that make direct or indirect references to other anime (anything produced by CLAMP comes to mind).

Here is one easy example, you can't "get" this scene unless you watched Evangelion before, which is a totally unrelated anime:
(Hint: That's Asuka and Rei in the background)




If you're just starting to watch anime and have no prior knowledge on Japanese culture, it is better to watch more mainstream stuff first. This is especially true if you're trying to watch any comedy anime, since all of them have subtle references.

[BVitamin]

A.

Originally Posted by Gantz

Anime is not just like any other story telling medium, it is more similar to Greek literature. You can pick up and read Oresteia right away, but you'll appreciate it much more if you read Homer first.

B.

Same can be said about anime because they play off of each other and have common things/jokes running through them. For one, most (if not all) of the anime have Japanese cultural references in them, which simply a "beginner" to anime who has no experience with Japanese culture would not "get".

Not standardly so. The shows that I had mentioned absolutely do not reference other animes, a few shows do that, that I can recall, but not generally. So the comparison to some Greek literature is a bit obfuscated and not necessarily an accurate comparison. Also saying they reference each other and obviously implementing/referencing Japanese culture are two different things. A show from Japan is using Japanese culture in them needs to be introduced as if weaned to some kind of better understanding of it? I doubt it, unless you can show me some kind of evolutionary progression of watching shows from introductory to intermediate/or advance understanding of the Japanese culture. Yes, I do agree that having background information of certain subjects would give you a better understanding but anime shows aren't heavily constructed around that, even if it did, the show would undoubtedly explain it and or the fan-subs explaining it (which would be more of a footnote, rather than some kind of epiphany to the main plot).

As to referencing other animes, that's an inside joke that is, from what I understand, irrelevant to the main story. I don't believe it would be contingent in developing a deeper understanding of the story only in so far the joke goes.

There are also a lot of titles that make direct or indirect references to other anime (anything produced by CLAMP comes to mind).

Here is one easy example, you can't "get" this scene unless you watched Evangelion before, which is a totally unrelated anime:
(Hint: That's Asuka and Rei in the background)

CLAMP would be considered mainstream, and it came across from that other poster, who I can't recall at the moment, did not want. He had mentioned Kino's Journey; KJ does not reference other anime shows that I know of, nor does it implement much of Japanese culture that I know of.

Again, that example is just a joke, from what you presented. I've not seen it, is that inside joke the main point of the plot of that episode? I somehow doubt it. A side note, I don't think that other poster would be interested in that particular show, from what he posted, so ... kind of a bad example, I think.

If you're just starting to watch anime and have no prior knowledge on Japanese culture, it is better to watch more mainstream stuff first. This is especially true if you're trying to watch any comedy anime, since all of them have subtle references.

You'll have to give me at least three examples, this idea is lost on me.

[Gantz]

You need more examples? Here is one anime you mentioned:

Originally Posted by BVitamin

Durarara is another good one, fairly recent show.

Durarara has minor inside jokes/references and/or borrows several characters and scenes from the following shows:

- Baccano
- Spice and Wolf
- Jigoku Shoujo
- Dokuro-chan
- Kuro****suji
- Yozakura Quartet
- Cencoroll
- Le Portrait de Petit Cossette
- Darker than BLACK - Ryuusei no Gemini
- To Aru Majutsu no Index/Railgun
- Ladies vs Butlers
- Shakugan no Shana
- So Ra No Wo To
- Kino's Journey

and many more...


No offense, but if you watch a series and you miss over 20 minor subtle jokes, you might not fully appreciate the "quality" and the "genius" of the series.

[BVitamin]

Originally Posted by Gantz

You need more examples? Here is one anime you mentioned:


Durarara has minor inside jokes/references and/or borrows several characters and scenes from the following shows:

1- Baccano
2- Spice and Wolf
3- Jigoku Shoujo
4- Dokuro-chan
5- Kuro****suji
6- Yozakura Quartet
7- Cencoroll
8- Le Portrait de Petit Cossette
9- Darker than BLACK - Ryuusei no Gemini
10- To Aru Majutsu no Index/Railgun
11- Ladies vs Butlers
12- Shakugan no Shana
13- So Ra No Wo To
14- Kino's Journey

and many more...


No offense, but if you watch a series and you miss over 20 minor subtle jokes, you might not fully appreciate the "quality" and the "genius" of the series.

This reminds of conversations where two people are talking and they seem to be replying to each other when one of them realizes the other person isn't really talking about what you're talking about, missed and glossed over; they touch on the same subjects, even use the same nouns at times but one of them is left blind sighted by the other person's agenda. Anyways, I feel kind of duped.

But to quickly address what you wanted to focus on;
yes, I forgot they did make several reference joke to Baccano (same creator), was it essential to the overall story line? No, I don't recall it did. Did it elevate it's "quality" and "genius"? Obviously not for me seeing how I didn't recall it right away. I've seen 9, 14, and some of 10, I don't know where they where referenced, if at all. Can you give me instances of 9, 14, and 10 references in Durarara? But given that I did noticed the reference to Baccano, did I value the "quality" and the "genius" more? Hardly, it was more a simple nod of appreciation, really minute on what I value. Did these references play in the overall main plots?

It just seems you value these little inside jokes in a fetish sort of way. If someone didn't understand a reference joke, it does not tarnish one's appreciation for it but somehow you think that getting all of these references amplifies the "quality and genius" of a show. Quantifying "quality and genius" based on reference jokes, seems a little skewed.

[Gantz]

Originally Posted by BVitamin

It just seems you value these little inside jokes in a fetish sort of way. If someone didn't understand a reference joke, it does not tarnish one's appreciation for it but somehow you think that getting all of these references amplifies the "quality and genius" of a show. Quantifying "quality and genius" based on reference jokes, seems a little skewed.

Never did I say you have to get ALL of the references, but if you miss 20 of them, well that's kind of a big deal don't you think?

1. There is more than one reference to Baccano. For one, the password for Dollar's website is "baccano" Episodes 1, 3, 6, 7, 10, 11, 18 all reference Baccano.

2. Kino's journey reference was when Erika made a mistake saying a word, and Walker commented on it saying "You're just like Hermes". She meant the motorad Hermes from Kino's journey who frequently botches words. This scene wouldn't even make sense if someone didn't watch Kino's journey before.

3. There are several Railgun references in the dialogue in Durarara, here is a screenshot of one:
(Biribiri is a nickname for Railgun herself if you recall)


Again, if someone didn't watch Railgun, they would go like "huh??" when they see this scene. There is no way you can make sense of the character dialogue without the knowledge of what they are talking about...

[BVitamin]

Originally Posted by Gantz

Never did I say you have to get ALL of the references, but if you miss 20 of them, well that's kind of a big deal don't you think?

No, I don't, did these references effect or even affected the major plot points?

1. There is more than one reference to Baccano. For one, the password for Dollar's website is "baccano" Episodes 1, 3, 6, 7, 10, 11, 18 all reference Baccano.

Read what I had written, again;

Originally Posted by BVitamin

But to quickly address what you wanted to focus on;
yes, I forgot they did make several reference joke to Baccano (same creator) ...

2. Kino's journey reference was when Erika made a mistake saying a word, and Walker commented on it saying "You're just like Hermes". She meant the motorad Hermes from Kino's journey who frequently botches words. This scene wouldn't even make sense if someone didn't watch Kino's journey before.

3. There are several Railgun references in the dialogue in Durarara, here is a screenshot of one:
(Biribiri is a nickname for Railgun herself if you recall)


Again, if someone didn't watch Railgun, they would go like "huh??" when they see this scene. There is no way you can make sense of the character dialogue without the knowledge of what they are talking about...

Yep, missed those. Am I going to watch "most" (as you think it would be important) of the anime they reference? Nope. Railgun is a horrible show, I think, no way am I going to sit through watching another episode.

See what happened about the talking about different things? ... yeah, happened again.