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Old 04-21-2009, 02:44 AM
 
857 posts, read 1,512,836 times
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I'm a transplant to the American S.W. from Seattle who doesn't fit in down here ...

Unlike Seattle, Arizona and New Mexico are states that are anti-business, anti-union, and very conservative on social issues.

And, the Caucasian Elites don't like the Hispanics. And, there are tensions between various religions. And, they hate the GLBT community. I could go on and on.

As a native of Seattle, I am used to an environment open to all religions, ethnic groups, and GLBT persons.

Sadly, even places such as Santa Fe, NM; and Flagstaff, AZ are very socially conservative - much of the population is intolerant of Hispanics, African Americans, Gays, Fundamentalists, Jews, Mormons, etc. etc.

Back in Seattle, we don't even care who our neighbors are, or what religion they follow. I never heard things like, "Oh, they're fundamentalists!" or, "Oh, they're lesbians!" That's ridiculous.

I'm a huge outdoors guy into biking and organic gardening and hope to buy land someday.

I have looked at Eugene's "twin city of arts and the outdoors" of far-left, pro-business, liberal Boulder, Colorado.

However, there's a major problem there - the winds. Boulder experiences one of the highest average wind speeds every month of the year at over 10mph, with peak gusts of 60mph+ just about every month.

Eugene...one of the lowest: average of 6.5mph...

The following will sound silly: for those of afflicted or even partially disabled with various "epileptiform disorders" (Migraines, Epilepsy, Seasonal Affective Disorder, etc.), high winds and their positive ions are our worst enemy.

Yes indeed, even seasonal affective symptoms are aggravated by winds, and/or lack thereof, depending on what kind of SAD you have.

Back to Eugene and the Willamette Valley - I already know its a very socially liberal, pro-business, pro-union place.

What concerns me are the unemployment figures - Oregon is very high at 12%.

Yet on the other hand, it's by far the best state in the US for one of my two employment fields - horticulture / landscaping - and the field lasts year round, in contrast to Boulder, CO.

Do you think it's possible to move there this spring and get a job in this area?

Or, would I have better chances in Boulder ..... given that Boulder's unemployment rate is 6% (but the total number of jobs in the field is much less).

I did live in Corvallis twice in the '90's so I know I already love the area ...

Thanks .....
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:26 AM
 
1,313 posts, read 6,024,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lane View Post
Yet on the other hand, it's by far the best state in the US for one of my two employment fields - horticulture / landscaping.
I'm not so sure about that. In fact I was talking to a colleague of mine who is a landscape designer in California about this very issue. He told me that his career almost requires him to live where the money's at -- where six and seven-figure incomes are common and people casually throw thousands of dollars at their yards in a single year.
Both Washington and California are more promising than Oregon in this regard. Modest homes and landscapes are the norm here and there is a strong DIY ethic. Outside of commercial projects, there just aren't a lot of people who want, need or can afford professional help with their landscapes and gardens. Most of the work that is available will be farther north in the valley: from the Portland metro area down into parts of Marion County. That's where all the main commercial nurseries are.

With regards to the effects of environmental stresses on synaptic activity, Eugene is anything but a haven for epileptiform disorders. SAD, barometric dysthymia and a myriad of chronic allergy responses are rampant there. Average annual wind speed is low, but powerful storms do come through and stir up the air from late autumn through early spring.

The overall advice is the same as given to everyone: if you have a job right now, keep it. If you don't have a job right now, but live in an area of single-digit unemployment, don't move unless you have a job offer. This isn't the time to be making discretional lifestyle moves...and certainly not to the state rated #2 in the nation for highest unemployment.

P.S. I wouldn't say Arizona and New Mexico are "anti-business." The political culture in "right to work" states is very friendly to employers. It's employees who get the short end of the stick.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Golden Valley/Kingman AZ
28 posts, read 167,834 times
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Quote:
Sadly, even places such as Santa Fe, NM; and Flagstaff, AZ are very socially conservative - much of the population is intolerant of Hispanics, African Americans, Gays, Fundamentalists, Jews, Mormons, etc. etc.
Since Flagstaff, is 30% Mormon according to your data; how could Flagstaff be anti Mormon?

Quote:
Sadly, even places such as Santa Fe, NM; and Flagstaff, AZ are very socially conservative
Not sad at all! Even socially conservatives need a place to call home! You can't force your agenda on everyone; if GLBT issues are your thing; then move to a place that accepts your lifestyle! More important; you need to accept your orientation privately like the rest of us do!

GLBT issues are not a major concern to most folks in Arizona, who are not fixated on that agenda! In Arizona; Bisbee would be a community better suited for those focused on that solo issue; or Eugene in Oregon.

Last edited by KNJO; 04-21-2009 at 07:59 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:43 PM
 
857 posts, read 1,512,836 times
Reputation: 186
Default Inappropriate Anti-Business, Anti-Gay, and Anti-Religious Attitudes

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNJO View Post
Since Flagstaff, is 30% Mormon according to your data; how could Flagstaff be anti Mormon?
I don't have any data, it's from city data. 30% of people who happen to be religious in Flagstaff are Mormons according to City-Data.com's profile for Flagstaff. The Liberals in Flagstaff don't like the Mormons, Fundamentalists, and Jews - that's the type of intolerance that I find totally unacceptable! Back in Seattle, Liberals do not care what your religion is. We simply do not have this disrespectful childish intolerance back in the Pacific Northwest! I grew up in a Seattle neighborhood of Jews, Fundamentalists, Mormons, gays, etc. and it was never an issue. Just like San Francisco!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNJO View Post
Not sad at all! Even socially conservatives need a place to call home! You can't force your agenda on everyone; if GLBT issues are your thing; then move to a place that accepts your lifestyle! More important; you need to accept your orientation privately like the rest of us do! GLBT issues are not a major concern to most folks in Arizona, who are not fixated on that agenda! In Arizona; Bisbee would be a community better suited for those focused on that solo issue; or Eugene in Oregon.
That's the problem in Arizona ... the GLBT population tries to change things in a state that will always be a very conservative, intolerant state. Life is too short. They would be advised to move to more tolerant areas or states that accept gay marriage. The state just banned gay marriage. There are 50 states and thousands of cities nationwide to choose from. Gays and Liberals should never move to Arizona unless they want to fight an intolerant system. But that's just my view and I am no spokesperson for GLBT activists in Arizona. I'm a liberal person who does not like to see people get discriminated against.

But you are distorting my issue.

My #1 issue is that people in Arizona are NOT ECONOMICALLY LIBERAL in the tradition of Adam Smith, since they are very anti-business and very intolerant of entrepreneurs!


They do not like Unions, and don't want big box stores or new start up companies coming to town.

They don't even like Costco and REI of all places - Pacific Northwest Startups!

Imagine if the Unionized Fred Meyer was down here, oh my, they wouldn't like them either!

This anti-business attitude is inappropriate, and that's part of the reason why AZ is in a recession, and why my friends left the *STATE* after getting Fired.


Why is Oregon in a recession?

With all the timber, nurseries, and Pacific Rim trade, I do not understand how this could happen.

I love the Pacific Northwest, and am very sorry to see it decline in the 2 years since I've been in the Southwest.

Last edited by CCCVDUR; 04-21-2009 at 09:08 PM..
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:57 PM
 
857 posts, read 1,512,836 times
Reputation: 186
Default Nursery Business In Oregon's Willamette Valley

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve97415 View Post
I'm not so sure about that. In fact I was talking to a colleague of mine who is a landscape designer in California about this very issue.
Steve: I'm referring to work in horticulture (nurseries, small farms), not landscaping. Indeed, Landscape design goes down on a local scale whenever construction goes down. The nursery business produces plants serving large regions even several states, so is less dependent on construction in the particular state in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve97415 View Post
With regards to the effects of environmental stresses on synaptic activity, Eugene is anything but a haven for epileptiform disorders. SAD, barometric dysthymia and a myriad of chronic allergy responses are rampant there. Average annual wind speed is low, but powerful storms do come through and stir up the air from late autumn through early spring.
Well, indeed, there may be no perfect weather scenario for epileptiform conditions given that most desert areas along w/ Midwest/Rocky mountain states have high winds. High winds bring positive ions so they are the worst. No good answer to this issue ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve97415 View Post
The overall advice is the same as given to everyone: if you have a job right now, keep it. If you don't have a job right now, but live in an area of single-digit unemployment, don't move unless you have a job offer. This isn't the time to be making discretional lifestyle moves...and certainly not to the state rated #2 in the nation for highest unemployment.
I have no job and am about to leave this state (Arizona) where in my town there is double digit unemployment, even though it is reported as single digits (for whatever reason, they apparently don't count non-residents and college students). I keep meeting people in flagstaff, they lose their jobs, and leave the state. Among other places in the West, I would consider Oregon & Washington since my industry is in season right now.

Why is your Oregon unemployment so high?

Is anyone trying to stimulate the economy to bring it down?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve97415 View Post
P.S. I wouldn't say Arizona and New Mexico are "anti-business." The political culture in "right to work" states is very friendly to employers. It's employees who get the short end of the stick.
I'm referring to the lack of significant tax incentives and recruitment policies for new businesses, etc. etc. New Mexico is much more pro-business than Arizona.

Do not move to tourist/art/college enclaves like Flagstaff / Sedona / Cottonwood, AZ; or Taos / Espanola / Santa Fe, NM -- as they do not like new stores or companies coming to town. A college town w/ some industry like Boulder or Eugene is much more ideal for young people like myself....
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Old 05-06-2009, 04:32 PM
 
4 posts, read 17,091 times
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Dude, your wayyyyy off on any data you have from New Mexico. First of all, Hispanics are the majority of the population, so this idea that there is an intolerance is whacked. Santa Fe has a huge gay and lesbian population as does Albuquerque. Albuquerque also hosts a Lesbian convention every may, and Santa Fe hosts The Southwest Gay and Lesbian Film Festival.
Santa Fe is a very liberal city, being called "the city different", its an arts community- so yea, not a whole lot of conservatism there.
I grew up in New Mexico, and I grew up in Hispanic neighborhoods, so, I do take some offense to what you said about the intolerance- I have no clue where you got your information, but it is wayyyyyy off base.
I actually find Eugene to be more intolerant to Hispanics and any other races honestly, being that it is 95% Caucasian. But, being that maybe they didn't grow around other races, its normal, i guess...?

I don't know dude, maybe you should stay in Seattle....if it's such a great place according to you, why leave? Every town/city is going to have its issues, you just have to find your place within it. Why don't you visit the places you speak about, instead of taking info from stats or some jaded ex resident. JMHO
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:00 PM
 
4,284 posts, read 14,869,088 times
Reputation: 3960
Let's stick to discussing Eugene in the Eugene Forum, please.
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Old 05-08-2009, 02:03 AM
 
857 posts, read 1,512,836 times
Reputation: 186
Default One Screen Name Please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cornerguy1 View Post
Let's stick to discussing Eugene in the Eugene Forum, please.
I have absolutely no idea what he is talking about. I do not live in either seattle or new mexico, and have no info on either Hispanics or the NM gay/lesbian film festival.

And how did she/he get away with two screen names? I know his/her other screen name. Why do people think it is so easy to hide behind more than one? It's easy to figure out if you know how.
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Old 05-27-2009, 10:29 AM
 
504 posts, read 1,329,136 times
Reputation: 298
Tom, the Eugene area has a few nationally known nurseries like Greer Gardens and Gossler Farms. Having worked at 3 retail nurseries in Oregon and California I can only advise you that the nursery industry is unbelievably stingy when it comes to wages - even if you're a certified nurseryman! Hopefully the wholesale industry is a bit more generous. And the nursery industry is Oregon's largest agricultural industry. I say go for it. Eugene's a great little city .
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Old 05-29-2009, 07:07 PM
 
6,061 posts, read 13,801,588 times
Reputation: 7097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennerator View Post
Dude, your wayyyyy off on any data you have from New Mexico. First of all, Hispanics are the majority of the population, so this idea that there is an intolerance is whacked. Santa Fe has a huge gay and lesbian population as does Albuquerque. Albuquerque also hosts a Lesbian convention every may, and Santa Fe hosts The Southwest Gay and Lesbian Film Festival.
Santa Fe is a very liberal city, being called "the city different", its an arts community- so yea, not a whole lot of conservatism there.
I grew up in New Mexico, and I grew up in Hispanic neighborhoods, so, I do take some offense to what you said about the intolerance- I have no clue where you got your information, but it is wayyyyyy off base.
I actually find Eugene to be more intolerant to Hispanics and any other races honestly, being that it is 95% Caucasian. But, being that maybe they didn't grow around other races, its normal, i guess...?
I grew up in the Southwest, I'm a Dallas girl. I've lived on the west coast now since 2003 - first CA, then OR, then WA (we lived on the eastside in Redmond), and now I'm back in OR. I agree with Jennerator. My husband looks Hispanic. (He's not, but he just looks it.) He never had any problems while we lived in the Southwest. Since moving to the west coat, though, he constantly has problems with racial profiling. You know, we'd actually never even heard that term - racial profiling - until we moved to Eugene! It seems to be a hot topic out here, but in Texas and other SW states, Hispanics are so much a part of the population that at times it seems whites are the minority. Most people I knew growing up spoke both english and spanish, or at least "TexMex". I also knew many more openly gay people in Dallas. Here in the PNW people are more reserved, more quiet, they keep you guessing. This might be the areas form of tolerance, which is fine, but in the SW that I grew up in, people were free to be who they were and they were open and honest about it. In the SW it's more of a "this is how I am, take it or leave it" attitude than a "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" attitude that I get here in the PNW. I don't think one is better than the other, they're just different. To a southerner, pacific northwesterners come off as cold and indifferent and so far to the left and so progressive that they seem closed-minded in their own way. To a Pacific Northwesterner, Southerners seem small-minded and conservative regardless of the fact that we are often some of the most creative and truly progressive people you might ever meet if you'd just open up a little and give us a chance. It's all about perspectives.
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