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Old 06-25-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Fresno, CA
1,071 posts, read 1,153,549 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haggardhouseelf View Post
I don't know if this would even be legal... but I was thinking the other day that it would be a fun and seemingly very Eugene thing to do for caring citizens from the community to form citizen watch groups and set up a schedule and begin patrolling the streets, on their bicycles or unicycles or recumbents, even.

I'm thinking something like the Monty Python sketch with the Hells Grannies! You know... if there was a group of concerned memaws out there... they could putter around keeping a watchful eye out, reporting to the police what they see or whacking evil-doers over their heads with their handbags... OK maybe no whacking because they'd get into trouble for that... they could call themselves the Memaws of Mayhem.

Papa's could get in on the action, too... Wicked Papa Posse, or Grandpa Mafia...

And there would need to be groups of lesbian/bi/trans folk who would help protect our streets, too... maybe they could call themselves the Rainbow Posse.

I know we could get a bunch of parents involved, wanting to keep our city safer for our kids. Groups could name themselves according to where they come from... Ferry St. Familia, River Rd. Resistance, Downtown Locos, West Eugene Kings...

I think the Slug Queen in all her wondrous glory should also help out. She could gather up some of her slimy friends and slowly make her rounds, keeping the city safe... Gastropod Bangers... Mad Mollusks... Slug Thugs...

It could work. We could set up email reminders, a yahoo group. We could twitter...
You are too much, haggardhouseelf! If I lived there I could join the Arthritic Annie Oakleys or the Silver-haired Sh**kickers.
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Old 06-25-2009, 01:31 PM
 
6,061 posts, read 13,879,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollyblythe View Post
You are too much, haggardhouseelf! If I lived there I could join the Arthritic Annie Oakleys or the Silver-haired Sh**kickers.
Ha ha!! I was thinking today as my son and I were walking a sweet wooded trail by the Willamette river that we'd need a river patrol, too... by canoe, boat, or kayak... call them the Riotous River Rats, or the cantankerous Kayakers, or the Wily Willametters... or something...

I have noticed a lot of cops on motorcycles lately. Especially around the Coburg Rd. and Alton Baker Park area.
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Old 06-25-2009, 04:15 PM
 
857 posts, read 1,523,662 times
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It's very unfortunate to read this thread, for those of us thinking about moving back to the Pacific NW someday, especially to a wonderful place such as Eugene!

The problem that Eugene faces is Smart Growth, the Urban Growth Boundary, and how this increases home values, rents, and the cost of living relatively rapidly -- faster than the rate of inflation. The end result is homelessness, unemployment, drugs, and crime.

Every other city that I know managed w/ smart growth has serious problems with crime, drugs, housing affordability, and unemployment (i.e. Flagstaff, Boulder (CO), Albuquerque, Phoenix, Tucson, etc.).

Sorry to see cities managed like this. The smart growth philosophy only protects the self-serving interests of rich yuppies on the City Councils.

As a member of the younger generation (18-40), I tell these yuppies that we WANT to own homes, and we WILL RUN for political office, and CANCEL the so called smart growth and associated impact fees (smartgrowth.org).

Take a look at the planning penalties by state:
Housing Affordability
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Old 06-25-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington
2,317 posts, read 7,227,526 times
Reputation: 1727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lane View Post
It's very unfortunate to read this thread, for those of us thinking about moving back to the Pacific NW someday, especially to a wonderful place such as Eugene!

The problem that Eugene faces is Smart Growth, the Urban Growth Boundary, and how this increases home values, rents, and the cost of living relatively rapidly -- faster than the rate of inflation. The end result is homelessness, unemployment, drugs, and crime.

Every other city that I know managed w/ smart growth has serious problems with crime, drugs, housing affordability, and unemployment (i.e. Flagstaff, Boulder (CO), Albuquerque, Phoenix, Tucson, etc.).

Sorry to see cities managed like this. The smart growth philosophy only protects the self-serving interests of rich yuppies on the City Councils.

As a member of the younger generation (18-40), I tell these yuppies that we WANT to own homes, and we WILL RUN for political office, and CANCEL the so called smart growth and associated impact fees (smartgrowth.org).

Take a look at the planning penalties by state:
Housing Affordability
Wellllll... The people of Oregon actually voted to keep smart growth... You can't just get on a city council and put an end to smart growth... Which wouldn't be very smart would it? It's not going to change. Not in Oregon anyway.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:34 AM
 
857 posts, read 1,523,662 times
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Default BE A REAL LIBERAL and CANCEL SMART GROWTH !!! :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by backdrifter View Post
Wellllll... The people of Oregon actually voted to keep smart growth... You can't just get on a city council and put an end to smart growth... Which wouldn't be very smart would it? It's not going to change. Not in Oregon anyway.

As an American, I want to see equal opportunities for all. That means decreasing unemployment in these tough economic times. Since the mortgage crisis for the most part ONLY occurred in states with SMART GROWTH (see my previous post in this thread w/ the map), the FIRST thing to do is to CANCEL smart growth (impact fees, urban growth boundaries, etc.).

For whatever reason, the party generally in favor of smart growth calls themselves liberals. Well, that's not the definition of liberal that Adam Smith had, which was unrestrained free market capitalism! That USED to exist in this country, until these smart growth freaks took over your local City Councils in recent years.

I challenge all Democrats and commentators such as Oregon's very own Thom Hartmann to THINK for a change, about how anti-growth policies have resulted in the cost of living escalating at a rate faster than it otherwise would, all other factors equal.

Many of us have LEFT the Democrat(ic) Party due to nonsense such as smart growth. I have worked in the nursery business (plants) and am deeply saddened to see how my industry has been crushed due to less consumer spending, and less home building / landscaping.

Local politicians need to THINK about what their PRIMARY role SHOULD be: to make sure that people are employed and have cheap food. Blocking growth, Wallmart, Costco, REI, etc. etc. in the name of some holier than thou elite agenda is tantamount to a socialistic totalitarian regime, especially when such smart growth policies cause a states unemployment rate to more than double in just 8 months.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:49 AM
 
Location: Southwest Washington
2,317 posts, read 7,227,526 times
Reputation: 1727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lane View Post
As an American, I want to see equal opportunities for all. That means decreasing unemployment in these tough economic times. Since the mortgage crisis for the most part ONLY occurred in states with SMART GROWTH (see my previous post in this thread w/ the map), the FIRST thing to do is to CANCEL smart growth (impact fees, urban growth boundaries, etc.).

For whatever reason, the party generally in favor of smart growth calls themselves liberals. Well, that's not the definition of liberal that Adam Smith had, which was unrestrained free market capitalism! That USED to exist in this country, until these smart growth freaks took over your local City Councils in recent years.

I challenge all Democrats and commentators such as Oregon's very own Thom Hartmann to THINK for a change, about how anti-growth policies have resulted in the cost of living escalating at a rate faster than it otherwise would, all other factors equal.

Many of us have LEFT the Democrat(ic) Party due to nonsense such as smart growth. I have worked in the nursery business (plants) and am deeply saddened to see how my industry has been crushed due to less consumer spending, and less home building / landscaping.

Local politicians need to THINK about what their PRIMARY role SHOULD be: to make sure that people are employed and have cheap food. Blocking growth, Wallmart, Costco, REI, etc. etc. in the name of some holier than thou elite agenda is tantamount to a socialistic totalitarian regime, especially when such smart growth policies cause a states unemployment rate to more than double in just 8 months.
In Oregon it is very complicated as to why the economy went bust so badly and it is totally unrelated to smart growth. Look at Bend, for example. It grew way too fast (among the fastest growing metros in the COUNTRY) to the point where its economy became overdependent upon growth and construction. Its economy is now one of the worst in the whole state of Oregon with an unemployment rate in Deschutes County being about 2.6% higher than Lane County.

That kind of growth that is dependent upon consumerism and wasting resources is just entirely unsustainable. I would bet if official data had been kept on the employment rates before Oregon legislated smart growth it would show that the rates were still higher than other parts of the country.

If it requires some authoritarian rules to protect the environment and require growth to be planned for ahead of time then so be it, in my opinion. I'm no libertarian (or classic liberal) after all. Wal-Mart, Costco, etc. aren't even good for local economies because they take money that's spent here and send it elsewhere. The thing I like about Eugene is that its more oriented towards local businesses rather than big box chains, though there are plenty of those too. Localized, sustainable economies with growth that plans for the future are what we should be aiming for, and not some theoretical pure form of capitalism that is impossible to achieve in the real world.

I'm glad the people of Eugene and Oregon generally think more along those lines.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:25 AM
 
6,061 posts, read 13,879,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backdrifter View Post
In Oregon it is very complicated as to why the economy went bust so badly and it is totally unrelated to smart growth. Look at Bend, for example. It grew way too fast (among the fastest growing metros in the COUNTRY) to the point where its economy became overdependent upon growth and construction. Its economy is now one of the worst in the whole state of Oregon with an unemployment rate in Deschutes County being about 2.6% higher than Lane County.

That kind of growth that is dependent upon consumerism and wasting resources is just entirely unsustainable. I would bet if official data had been kept on the employment rates before Oregon legislated smart growth it would show that the rates were still higher than other parts of the country.

If it requires some authoritarian rules to protect the environment and require growth to be planned for ahead of time then so be it, in my opinion. I'm no libertarian (or classic liberal) after all. Wal-Mart, Costco, etc. aren't even good for local economies because they take money that's spent here and send it elsewhere. The thing I like about Eugene is that its more oriented towards local businesses rather than big box chains, though there are plenty of those too. Localized, sustainable economies with growth that plans for the future are what we should be aiming for, and not some theoretical pure form of capitalism that is impossible to achieve in the real world.

I'm glad the people of Eugene and Oregon generally think more along those lines.
I agree! I'm an environmentalist, I do my best to keep doing my part, and I support smart growth. I also support Oregon Wild. I feel that Eugene's recent rise in crime is more due to the economy. When there are so many people without jobs, people get desperate. We have lost two major employers in our area in recent months (that I know of) and this has put thousands out of work. But - we've actually had a big crackdown recently in drug operations in the area, which is good! Also - the whole "not enough jail beds" issue is being actively worked on as we speak. For awhile there, they were just releasing criminals back out on the street because they didn't want to spend the money to open up more beds. They were available, but from what I understand the county just didn't want to spend the money to use them. Anyway - things are changing. Even downtown is turning around. I've been spending time down there again, and am feeling much safer about it. I know it was controversial, but I think that the ordinance was a good thing.

I'm from a place that was nothing but sprawl... DFW. It was awful. I hated living there. I definitely support smart growth.

I'm not sure I'm excited about the plans for a new "boutique" hotel, though... what the heck? People are broke and unemployed and they want to build a frou-frou yuppie estalishment. Hmmm... I wish they'd do something about the pit, too. I mean... how hard would it be to just fill it up with some dirt and plant some trees and grass?
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:38 AM
 
6,061 posts, read 13,879,819 times
Reputation: 7112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lane View Post
As an American, I want to see equal opportunities for all. That means decreasing unemployment in these tough economic times. Since the mortgage crisis for the most part ONLY occurred in states with SMART GROWTH (see my previous post in this thread w/ the map), the FIRST thing to do is to CANCEL smart growth (impact fees, urban growth boundaries, etc.).

For whatever reason, the party generally in favor of smart growth calls themselves liberals. Well, that's not the definition of liberal that Adam Smith had, which was unrestrained free market capitalism! That USED to exist in this country, until these smart growth freaks took over your local City Councils in recent years.

I challenge all Democrats and commentators such as Oregon's very own Thom Hartmann to THINK for a change, about how anti-growth policies have resulted in the cost of living escalating at a rate faster than it otherwise would, all other factors equal.

Many of us have LEFT the Democrat(ic) Party due to nonsense such as smart growth. I have worked in the nursery business (plants) and am deeply saddened to see how my industry has been crushed due to less consumer spending, and less home building / landscaping.

Local politicians need to THINK about what their PRIMARY role SHOULD be: to make sure that people are employed and have cheap food. Blocking growth, Wallmart, Costco, REI, etc. etc. in the name of some holier than thou elite agenda is tantamount to a socialistic totalitarian regime, especially when such smart growth policies cause a states unemployment rate to more than double in just 8 months.
The mortgage crisis was mainly due to people buying more house than they could actually afford, and lenders encouraging or allowing this. People don't have to buy these massive McMansions in these horrible subdivisions on these huge lots. But they did, and paid way too much money for them, and they ended up screwing themselves very badly. These types of homes and newly developed communities are often in areas where there is "smart growth" because those communities got together and decided to put rules in place to discourage more of the McMansions and outer fringe developments from being built. People don't like sprawl. This is why people began incorporating and voting in smart growth.

People who didn't get suckered in to huge mortgages are doing fine right now. In fact, it's a very good time to buy for many people right now! People like my husband and I who didn't fall into the "buy more house than you can afford because everybody else is doing it" trap. We're actually doing very well right now. But everyone we know with a big mortgage is suffering. The bubble had to burst at some point, and burst it did!
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:02 PM
 
857 posts, read 1,523,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haggardhouseelf View Post
The mortgage crisis was mainly due to people buying more house than they could actually afford, and lenders encouraging or allowing this. People don't have to buy these massive McMansions in these horrible subdivisions on these huge lots. But they did, and paid way too much money for them, and they ended up screwing themselves very badly.
I wish this was the entire story. Unfortunately, as many Professors have discussed, high rates of foreclosures occurred in areas w/ smart growth, and the more liberal lending practices. That's why you don't see high rates of foreclosures or unemployment in Texas, Oklahoma, etc. New Mexico was OK until about 2 years ago, when Albuquerque implemented a growth management act. I lived in ABQ before this (in 2007?) when things were still cheap, and you could rent for $500/month. Not the case anymore, sadly. Here's an article from Dr. Cox about this:

How Smart Growth Exacerbated the International Financial Crisis

Quoting from Dr. Cox from this link:

"These policies, often referred to as "smart growth," create a scarcity of land, artificially raise the price of housing, and, again, have increased the exposure of the market to risky mortgage debt. When more liberal loan policies were implemented, metropolitan areas that had adopted these more restrictive policies lacked the resilient land markets that would have allowed the greater demand to be accommodated without inordinate increases in house prices."

Quote:
Originally Posted by haggardhouseelf View Post
I'm from a place that was nothing but sprawl... DFW [Dallas Ft. Worth]. It was awful. I hated living there. I definitely support smart growth........I'm not sure I'm excited about the plans for a new "boutique" hotel, though... what the heck? People are broke and unemployed and they want to build a frou-frou yuppie estalishment.....how hard would it be to just fill it up with some dirt and plant some trees and grass?
I don't like sprawl either, but those statements contradict each other <grin> since part of Smart Growth is Infilling, building high end retail in revitalized downtown areas. Down here, you'll see very impressive examples of Infilling Mixed Use areas in places such as Boulder, Colorado; Durango, CO; Frisco, CO. In Boulder, due to the smart growth driving rents up, you can't rent anything for under $2,000 per month downtown in the infill areas. Boulder put in a gigantic mall with high end retailers on prime real estate, that could have been, as you suggest, trees and grass.

They're doing the same thing in Flagstaff, w/ lofts, a Chicos, Coldwater Creek, and Pita Jungle. So the smart growth agenda isn't always for the middle class - most of its proponents are *RICH* liberal NIMBY (not in my backyard) types. As a *POOR* liberal, I support middle class familes and allowing people to do whatever they want to w/ their own land.

I think it's ridiculous when skinny smart growth homes are so close together that there is no lawns, and kids have to go play in the community park (probably filled w/ unemployed construction and landscape workers high on meth, because they were fired due to the decline in cosntruction from the smart growth restrictions!).

Also, the Texas governor just Vetoed the state's Smart Growth bill on June 19:
http://governor.state.tx.us/news/veto/12632/

Last edited by CCCVDUR; 06-26-2009 at 02:18 PM..
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:19 PM
 
4,284 posts, read 14,920,521 times
Reputation: 3963
Let's stick to Eugene crime stats in this thread, please.
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