What is it that makes a country European? (life, place, people)

[iPwn]

Since Europe is not a real continent in the geographical sense, but more of a sub-continental area that gets propped up as a real continent because of Euro-centrism and a distinctness from the rest of the Eurasian landmass, what is it that MAKES a country European?

My guess would be it is a background in ancient Rome (or in the case of eastern Europe, Constantinople). It's also an "idea", there's a concept of a community of countries in the northwest part of Eurasia that share a lot of things in common, this Europe is a fluid idea and might include one country in one century and exclude it in another.

[kevxu]

Originally Posted by MimzyMusic

Since Europe is not a real continent in the geographical sense, but more of a sub-continental area that gets propped up as a real continent because of Euro-centrism and a distinctness from the rest of the Eurasian landmass....

I think you would need to discuss your premis with Herodotus, who already had a clear idea of what the constituted the continent of Europe, and other ancient writers.

[ABQConvict]

Many Scandinavians do not consider themselves European in the broad sense.

For example, a Norwegian taking a trip to Germany, France, and Spain might tell her friend, "I'm going on holiday to Europe." or may say something like, "I don't care much for Europeans.", or "Norwegian milk simply tastes much better than the milk you get in Europe." These expressions predate the EU so it is not merely a function of not being a member of that political community.

Many Brits and Irish express a similar sentiment.

EU membership and globalist mentalities may be chipping away at these ideas. Or cementing them.

[meet4]

In Broader scale it's every country influenced by Greek philosophy, humanism and enlightenment. This rule is to weed out Turkey and Israel :-)

In lesser scale it's usually divided as West and East, which breaks down to subgroups like Scandinavia, Central Europe or Great Britain. This is basically to weed out some Balkan :-)

If you want heated debate that will last for hours, drop some bomb among group of Europeans, examples:

- Czech is historically eastern Europe and Soviet satellite
- Estonia is nordic and should be part of Scandinavia
- Anything about Great Serbia or Great Albania
- etc. etc.

Get popcorn and enjoy :-)

[cmptrwlt]

Originally Posted by ABQConvict

Many Scandinavians do not consider themselves European in the broad sense.

For example, a Norwegian taking a trip to Germany, France, and Spain might tell her friend, "I'm going on holiday to Europe." or may say something like, "I don't care much for Europeans.", or "Norwegian milk simply tastes much better than the milk you get in Europe." These expressions predate the EU so it is not merely a function of not being a member of that political community.

Many Brits and Irish express a similar sentiment.

EU membership and globalist mentalities may be chipping away at these ideas. Or cementing them.

Not exactly true.

"I'm going on holiday to Europe."
This might be true if a person is visiting more than one European country. Like traveling from Germany to France.

"I don't care much for Europeans."
Never heard any Norwegian say something like that. Example: Italy, France and Germany all got their own language and culture. People look different too. They are easy to distinguish from each other so why refer to them as Europeans?

[elgin loon]

dumb thread end of story.

[Munich]

In ancient Greek mythology, Europa was a Phoenician princess whom Zeus abducted after assuming the form of a dazzling white bull. He took her to the island of Crete where she gave birth to Minos, Rhadamanthus and Sarpedon. For Homer, Europe (Greek: Εὐρώπη, Eurṓpē; see also List of traditional Greek place names) was a mythological queen of Crete, not a geographical designation. Later, Europa stood for central-north Greece, and by 500 BC its meaning had been extended to the lands to the north.

The foundation of European culture was laid by the Greeks, strengthened by the Romans, stabilized by Christianity, reformed and modernized by the fifteenth-century Renaissance and Reformation and globalized by successive European empires between the sixteenth and twentieth centuries, including predominantly Muslim Ottoman Turks. Thus the European Culture developed into a very complex phenomenon of wider range of philosophy, Islamic mysticism, Christian and secular humanism, rational way of life and logical thinking developed through a long age of change and formation with the experiments of enlightenment, naturalism, romanticism, science, democracy, and socialism. Because of its global connection, the European culture grew with an all-inclusive urge to adopt, adapt and ultimately influence other trends of culture. As a matter of fact, therefore, from the middle of the nineteenth century with the expansion of European education and the spread of Christianity, European culture and way of life, to a great extent, turned to be "global culture," if anything has to be so named (Vide. Sailen Debnath, "Secularism: Western and Indian," Atlantic Publishers, New Delhi).

:-)

[le roi]

Originally Posted by MimzyMusic

Since Europe is not a real continent in the geographical sense, but more of a sub-continental area that gets propped up as a real continent

nonsense. a continent is nothing more than an arbitrarily defined landmass.

[Thomas R.]

Being in Europe (The Peninsula of Eurasia that starts around the Urals) is probably what makes a country European. Granted this could get tricky on the island nations, particularly Cyprus and Malta which are closer to the Middle East and North Africa respectively.

I'd say being majority Christian, at least at some period, before 1400 AD could also be a factor except that would make Ethiopia European. Granted some of the Balkans are Muslims, but I believe they were Christian before that. Still some kind-of Christian heritage, even if it's been submerged, and Indo-European language are somewhat unifying factors. Although the Finns, Hungarians, Sami/Lapps, and Basque do not speak Indo-European languages. It seems like some of the former Soviet Baltics also speak a Uralic language.

Roman legacy doesn't work. Syria was quite Roman and Ireland never was Roman. I really don't think it'd make sense to call Syria European and Ireland not. Napoleonic legacy might work a bit better, but you'd still have Ireland as not European.

[bale002]

A never-ending debate, as volatile as the forces of supply and demand, as volatile as relative prices for social and economic goods and services. I'll throw my hat in the ring.

The Christian heritage argument is even less convincing than the Graeco-Roman culture argument. In my view, both are Mediterranean cultural phenomena, not European, though to be sure there are mutual influences (but modern Europe is hardly Christian).

I'll agree with The Economist's view, then, and submit that Europe starts much later, with Charlemagne, and at the heart of Europe are France and Germany. For centuries Europe is much more Gaelic, Teutonic, Germanic and Slavic than it is Graeco-Roman or Christian.

The extent to which the European Union successfully expands goes lock-step with the the extent to which France and/or Germany, which on several occasions tried to subdue "their" portion of the Eurasian landmass by military means, and its allies, shifting or not, successfully spread their model of political economy.

Perhaps the greatest test of European-ness in the next twenty years or so is whether Turkey joins the Europe Union. I doubt that either the Turks or the Europeans will make such a decision because they are convinced by arguments about Christianity or Graeco-Roman culture of yesteryear, but because they decide collectively that they would be better off going forward together as a political-economic unit vis-a-vis other competitive forces in today's world. Shifting ideologies and symbols are shaped, bent out of shape, and reshaped in the framework of such decisions.

Good Luck!