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Humans are funny. The Americans had just stolen the continent from the indigenous peoples, and then they behaved like it was theirs and as if they had any more right to be there than German or other immigrants
The Amish still speak some German today. But I suppose that will end sooner or later...
You are wrong. In the 1870's and 1880's the British Empire covered a quarter of the globe, in fact you yourself right now are talking to me in English because of the British Empire!
I think both of you are right. In terms of cause and effect, of course the US would not be there without Britain. Then again, Britain as such is just a medium-sized country today, without the US English would thus be far less important these days and declining, maybe German would even be the most important language in Europe and Spanish in the world. Sure, some African countries would continue to have English as their official language, but that would not really change much because of the minor role Africa plays.
It's like with Portuguese. Sure, there would be no Brazil without the Portuguese. But these days the Portuguese language would be all but irrelevant if it were not for Brazil.
The big success of these two languages no longer depends in any way on the countries where they originated.
You are wrong. In the 1870's and 1880's the British Empire covered a quarter of the globe, in fact you yourself right now are talking to me in English because of the British Empire!
Ok, I guess I'll throw my history degree out.
It doesn't matter how much territory the British Empire controlled (much of that quarter being sparsely populated Canada and Australia); what matters is the cultural influence enjoyed by a country. During the time that Britain controlled a quarter of the world, French was the lingua franca, because France enjoyed a disproportionate level of cultural influence around the globe. This is why English became so heavily inundated with French vocabulary during this time period, and why the center of fashion, letters, and culture was Paris. In the European context, even German was more far more likely to be used than English; especially in the fields of science and technology.
If you enter the field of history and work with documents from the late 19th century, you will see this first hand. English was only a lingua franca between the territories controlled by Britain; French was the lingua franca in regions where French troops never set a foot. I have worked with several Victorian-era documents written by Germans and Russians which have been written in French, despite the fact that the readers would be other Germans and Russians. How often would a German or Russian write a letter to one of his countrymen in English? Never. Until the rise of the United States, that is.
English did not become the lingua franca until the dismemberment of the British Empire and the assertion of superpower status by the United States. In other words, the rise of English as a lingua franca directly correlates with the rise of the United States, and the fall of the British Empire. Did the British Empire help facilitate the spread of the English language? Absolutely. But it is not the reason why students in China, Brazil, and Russia are learning English right now over French.
It doesn't matter how much territory the British Empire controlled (much of that quarter being sparsely populated Canada and Australia); what matters is the cultural influence enjoyed by a country. During the time that Britain controlled a quarter of the world, French was the lingua franca, because France enjoyed a disproportionate level of cultural influence around the globe. This is why English became so heavily inundated with French vocabulary during this time period, and why the center of fashion, letters, and culture was Paris. In the European context, even German was more far more likely to be used than English; especially in the fields of science and technology.
If you enter the field of history and work with documents from the late 19th century, you will see this first hand. English was only a lingua franca between the territories controlled by Britain; French was the lingua franca in regions where French troops never set a foot. I have worked with several Victorian-era documents written by Germans and Russians which have been written in French, despite the fact that the readers would be other Germans and Russians. How often would a German or Russian write a letter to one of his countrymen in English? Never. Until the rise of the United States, that is.
English did not become the lingua franca until the dismemberment of the British Empire and the assertion of superpower status by the United States. In other words, the rise of English as a lingua franca directly correlates with the rise of the United States, and the fall of the British Empire. Did the British Empire help facilitate the spread of the English language? Absolutely. But it is not the reason why students in China, Brazil, and Russia are learning English right now over French.
+1000000. And that's why only Europe is taught "British English", because of geographical reasons (yes, though they don't know they are in Europe lol) while the rest of the world generally learns "American English". The same issue for Spanish (although not being a Lingua Franca and less commonly learnt). If a European joins Spanish lessoms, most likely s/he will be taught "Spain Spanish", if a North American/Asian/Australian does, it will most likely be "Latin American Spanish". French is an exception as Parisian French is taught universally to those learning French. As well as the Hochsprache for German.
Getting to the point, if it was the British Empire who made English as a Lingua Franca, it might have been that way since 18th Century. And it only started being so at the mid-20th century. In some countries, like mine, English wasn't considered the dominant language up until the 1990's. And we have, arguably, the lowest English proficiency of all Europe (Eastern Europe included) yet.
+1000000. And that's why only Europe is taught "British English", because of geographical reasons (yes, though they don't know they are in Europe lol) while the rest of the world generally learns "American English". The same issue for Spanish (although not being a Lingua Franca and less commonly learnt). If a European joins Spanish lessoms, most likely s/he will be taught "Spain Spanish", if a North American/Asian/Australian does, it will most likely be "Latin American Spanish". French is an exception as Parisian French is taught universally to those learning French. As well as the Hochsprache for German.
Getting to the point, if it was the British Empire who made English as a Lingua Franca, it might have been that way since 18th Century. And it only started being so at the mid-20th century. In some countries, like mine, English wasn't considered the dominant language up until the 1990's. And we have, arguably, the lowest English proficiency of all Europe (Eastern Europe included) yet.
Though Britain is no longer the reason why people learn English, judging from the pronunciation most of the world still learns British English, not American. Justified or not, American English is considered inferior to British English, which is considered the original so to speak, more sophisticated.
Where do you live? I don't know any country where English became the dominant language just like that. Do you mean the dominant foreign language?
Though Britain is no longer the reason why people learn English, judging from the pronunciation most of the world still learns British English, not American. Justified or not, American English is considered inferior to British English, which is considered the original so to speak, more sophisticated.
Where do you live? I don't know any country where English became the dominant language just like that. Do you mean the dominant foreign language?
That's actually what I meant. The dominant foreign language. Sorry, I didn't explain. My poor English skills... however, I'm an English-speaker ninja compared to many of my friends and countrymen.
I live in Spain, by the way.
That's actually what I meant. The dominant foreign language. Sorry, I didn't explain. My poor English skills... however, I'm an English-speaker ninja compared to many of my friends and countrymen.
I live in Spain, by the way.
Though Britain is no longer the reason why people learn English, judging from the pronunciation most of the world still learns British English, not American. Justified or not, American English is considered inferior to British English, which is considered the original so to speak, more sophisticated.
Where do you live? I don't know any country where English became the dominant language just like that. Do you mean the dominant foreign language?
Going by Asian immigrants and students here in Aus, its not that simple. Singaporeans particularly and Malaysians on balance speak a very British influenced form of English (the old colonial influence no doubt); those from the Philippines distinctly American influenced; Thais and Vietnamese probably US influenced but still a very "local" form.
But British English "superior" to other variants? Certainly not in this part of the world. Maybe in Europe, where the UK still retains a reasonable degree of political influence and economic relevance.
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