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Old 03-07-2014, 04:43 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkai View Post
What border? France, Portugal, or Andorra?

*keeps fingers crossed hoping it's ANDORRA*
No, your western border
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Old 03-07-2014, 04:52 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1098 View Post
Going by Asian immigrants and students here in Aus, its not that simple. Singaporeans particularly and Malaysians on balance speak a very British influenced form of English (the old colonial influence no doubt); those from the Philippines distinctly American influenced; Thais and Vietnamese probably US influenced but still a very "local" form.

But British English "superior" to other variants? Certainly not in this part of the world. Maybe in Europe, where the UK still retains a reasonable degree of political influence and economic relevance.
Africans also speak British English, even people in the Caribbean, despite their proximity to the US. So do Indians.

One reason might be the activities of the British Council around the world. I don't know of an American organization like that The Germans have their Goethe Institut, the Spaniards their Instituto Cervantes, the Portuguese their Instituto Camões, all strategically pushing their languages around the world...
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Old 03-07-2014, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
8,069 posts, read 6,976,359 times
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Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Though Britain is no longer the reason why people learn English, judging from the pronunciation most of the world still learns British English, not American. Justified or not, American English is considered inferior to British English, which is considered the original so to speak, more sophisticated.

Where do you live? I don't know any country where English became the dominant language just like that. Do you mean the dominant foreign language?
I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think American English has taking over because of media influence. Besides most people have foreign accents so it doesn't really matter because they will sound more like a French or Portuguese speaking English than like an American or British speaking English.

If you are able to recognize accents you will realize most Europeans (British and non British) sing with an American accent.
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Old 03-07-2014, 05:12 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,759,378 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugah Ray View Post
I'm not sure that's true anymore. I think American English has taking over because of media influence. Besides most people have foreign accents so it doesn't really matter because they will sound more like a French or Portuguese speaking English than like an American or British speaking English.

If you are able to recognize accents you will realize most Europeans (British and non British) sing with an American accent.
Yes of course, they do it because of the potential market, becoming successful in Britain does not really mean much to Germans or French or whoever.
But listen to interviews and they usually speak British English. The key to pronunciation is school. Because of the EU it is much easier to hire British teachers than American ones. So children are usually confronted with British pronunciation long before they are allowed to watch movies on TV.
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Old 03-07-2014, 05:51 PM
 
1,051 posts, read 1,742,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Africans also speak British English, even people in the Caribbean, despite their proximity to the US. So do Indians.

One reason might be the activities of the British Council around the world. I don't know of an American organization like that The Germans have their Goethe Institut, the Spaniards their Instituto Cervantes, the Portuguese their Instituto Camões, all strategically pushing their languages around the world...
Each variety of English is unique and distinctive, and I'd rate Indian and Southern African English (due to the Afrikaans influence) to be amongst the most unique and distinctive. General UK and US English probably have more similarities with each other than either do with Indian English.
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Old 03-07-2014, 05:55 PM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
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Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
That jungle view is not mine. Do you also think like that when a man robs an old woman in the pedestrian zone?
I think a situation where a old lady gets robbed is a little different from wars that happened in the 1500s
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Old 03-07-2014, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,523 posts, read 2,866,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Though Britain is no longer the reason why people learn English, judging from the pronunciation most of the world still learns British English, not American. Justified or not, American English is considered inferior to British English, which is considered the original so to speak, more sophisticated.
I'd argue that the accent of second language speakers is extremely difficult to classify as British or American. What I hear from non-native English speakers is a simply foreign accent. They rarely sound British or American because their proficiency in English is rarely developed enough to resemble the accent of a native speaker. Instead, they tend to sound like a Chinese, Nigerian, or Dutchman speaking English.

As for one being regarded as superior to the other, this is also highly debatable. The East Asians countries which are interested in economic and scientific advancement have developed a steady demand for American teachers, and even financially-oriented former British colonies like Singapore are considering switching their teaching to American English. Additionally, I'd argue that a young adult Norwegian or Russian interested in American movies, music and fashion naturally gravitates toward American English. Some are simply more attracted to what is cool, useful, or modern rather than what is sophisticated. It is not uncommon for foreigners to comment the American English accent sounds "standard"; I think that this is indicative of how inundated with American culture much of the world is.

Last edited by hobbesdj; 03-07-2014 at 06:52 PM..
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Old 03-07-2014, 08:23 PM
 
326 posts, read 471,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Now that English is the unofficial common language among Europeans who speak different languages (say if a Spaniard and a Pole want to speak, they usually go to English), I'm wondering how many Europeans feel about it? Particularly say the French and the Germans? French in particular was the unofficial language of diplomacy in Europe (when did English overtake it) and if history had gone differently French might have been the unofficial global lingua franca. The British Empire and the US combined seem to have successful entrenched English as the language of trade, politics, science, media for a long time now.

Is there some jealousy/resentment? Or do most not really care too much? I heard in some countries young people are even speaking English among themselves, is there a lot of fear that some might even start speaking English instead of say Dutch or German or Swedish? Do some young people sort of admire English or see it as superior/cool? I heard in Norway there was anger at advertisements in English.

It seems Southern Europeans are less open to English though, especially in Italy and Spain.
English is not dominant in Europe actually. Every country in Europe has its own language and the only countries that have English as its official language are the UK, Ireland and Malta. The rest all have their own languages and most don't intend on learning English unless it would benefit them by allowing them to move to an English speaking country or do business there. Nowadays, the living standards of most European countries is so high that there is no need to learn English, or any other language for that matter. If anything, most people from the poorer end of Europe tend to learn German because Germany/Switzerland/Austria all provide more opportunities for them than any English speaking country. Low unemployment, strong economy, high living standards.
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Old 03-08-2014, 02:19 AM
 
Location: Finland
6,418 posts, read 7,254,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkai View Post
+1000000. And that's why only Europe is taught "British English", because of geographical reasons (yes, though they don't know they are in Europe lol) while the rest of the world generally learns "American English". The same issue for Spanish (although not being a Lingua Franca and less commonly learnt). If a European joins Spanish lessoms, most likely s/he will be taught "Spain Spanish", if a North American/Asian/Australian does, it will most likely be "Latin American Spanish". French is an exception as Parisian French is taught universally to those learning French. As well as the Hochsprache for German.

Getting to the point, if it was the British Empire who made English as a Lingua Franca, it might have been that way since 18th Century. And it only started being so at the mid-20th century. In some countries, like mine, English wasn't considered the dominant language up until the 1990's. And we have, arguably, the lowest English proficiency of all Europe (Eastern Europe included) yet.
Well thats not true - English language varieties - Wikitravel
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Old 03-08-2014, 02:58 AM
 
Location: Minsk, Belarus
667 posts, read 941,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentry12 View Post
English is not dominant in Europe actually. Every country in Europe has its own language and the only countries that have English as its official language are the UK, Ireland and Malta. The rest all have their own languages and most don't intend on learning English unless it would benefit them by allowing them to move to an English speaking country or do business there. Nowadays, the living standards of most European countries is so high that there is no need to learn English, or any other language for that matter. If anything, most people from the poorer end of Europe tend to learn German because Germany/Switzerland/Austria all provide more opportunities for them than any English speaking country. Low unemployment, strong economy, high living standards.
Where are you from? What are your statements based on? I think they are far from being true. Europeans of all nations try to learn English rather than German nowadays.
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